US Customs deporting crew at FLIBS

I do not think the tax cap was brought in had anything to do with the crewing situation, most politicians have no idea how any law affects the crws but I do agree that the tax cap will help the local economy

Going right past some of the ridiculous statements, I personally believe that IN THIS COUNTRY those trying to take American jobs illegally should be deported, and those who would employ them should suffer serious fines and whatever other penalties the law permits. Some other countries would handle it much more harshly. As for 'have I ever broken the law', besides saying that's none of your business, I will say that I wouldn't do it in the face of a potential employer nor make him an accomplice. Also, there is only one person on this thread who has absolutely no tolerance for not knowing and abiding with every single law, rule and regulation on the books with the apparent exception of this one. Unless someone else here is playing devil's advocate.
BTW, the only criminal act you can commit without being classified as a criminal is one you haven't been caught for...yet. As for the degree of criminality remember, Al Capone was just a tax cheat.

If you knew the slightest thing about the yachting "industry" you would know that the jobs on foreign flag yachts are not "American jobs" by any stretch of the imagination.

There is no question that people who enter the country on a B1/B2 visa and look for work by walking the docks are violating the terms of the agreement under which they entered the country and most of them know they are risking deportation and future ability to reenter.

They did not sneak across the border, they are here legally. They are not seeking employment in a place of employment that requires them to supply a fake SS number or make other false statements in order to complete the I-9 form required by anyone seeking employment in the US that is reserved for US citizens, resident aliens, or others with the right to work in the US.

These young folk are not "wetbacks" or illegal aliens trying to sneak into the US. Many of them know just how backward our government is and how reactionary some of our citizens can be, and they don't care to have much to do with our medieval social model. They just want to get a job on a yacht and get out of Lauderdale. Some get caught, most don't and the Blackshirts have better places to spend their time than boat shows as far as I am concerned.

The OP clearly stated that the Authorities were detaining or deporting dock walkers seeking work on foreign flagged vessels. How does this equate to taking American Jobs?

I will take my speeding ticket and leave this thread now since I am apparently a criminal. Anyone else?

Anyone else what, a criminal or nervous about leaving alone?

By cappies definition we're all a bunch of Madoffs. As far as looking for someone to go home with check with dennismc, he was looking for a change.

Well according to US Coast Guard CFR 15.720. A US Documented vessel must employ US crew. If the Captain violates this and gets caught while in US waters with foreign crew it is a hefty fine and possibly his/her license. US documented vessels may hire foriegn crew temporarily in foriegn waters but must replace them immediately when it reaches a US port.

Do try and get it right if you are going to quote the regs.


US Code Sec. 8103. Citizenship and Naval Reserve requirements


(a) Only a citizen of the United States may serve as master,
chief engineer, radio officer, or officer in charge of a deck watch
or engineering watch on a documented vessel.
(b)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, on a
documented vessel -
(A) each unlicensed seaman must be a citizen of the United
States or an alien lawfully admitted to the United States for
permanent residence; and
(B) not more than 25 percent of the total number of unlicensed
seamen on the vessel may be aliens lawfully admitted to the
United States for permanent residence.
(2) Paragraph (1) of this subsection does not apply to -
(A) a yacht;

15.720 Use of Non-US licenses and/or documented personnel STATES

a- United States vessels which need to replace one or more persons while on a foriegn voyage and outside the jurisdiction of the United States, in order to meet manning requirements, may utilize non-US licensed and documented personnel. Except for the position of master and radio officer, until the vessel returns to a port at which in the most expeditious manner replacements who are citizens of the United States can be obtained.

B 1+2, C do not apply to yachts so I am not quoting them.

This is word for word out of the CFR 46 book Oct1,2006 revision. Doesn't that say the same thing????

No, because an American yacht is exempt from manning requirements. American ships and small passenger vessels with a COI and a safe manning document are not yachts.

The owner or operator of an American yacht that operates in American waters must meet the same employment laws as any other business or individual who hires servants or domestic help but if that yacht is operated outside the US, the owner or operator can hire whomever he wants.

American English - such a tricky language If I understand things correctly, and I may not: the issue re: FLIBS, is being in the USA on a tourist visa and seeking work, regardless of whether it is on a foreign yacht or not. This is a no, no according to our laws.

If traveling on a Seaman’s Discharge Book (which identifies you as genuine crew), and with a letter of employment, there's no issue when joining a foreign yacht in the USA (although the CPB, alphabet soup to follow, etc... seem to be of an divided opinion on what that status entitles you be awarded - B1/B2, C1/D1?, etc) You are given a "E Ticket" (Disneyland reference) to join the foreign yacht and roam the local port (with minor restrictions).

Without a letter of employment and a B1/B2 visa or a Green Card, you are prohibited from seeking employment in the USA, regardless of the potential employer’s nationality. Not even an interview appointment is permitted, period, stop, pre-arranged or not. Can you spell H1/N1 for a deckie? Back in the olden days that might have been possible, but with the high-tech guys eating-up the quota, extremely unlikely now.

The only solution to foreign potential yacht worker is via the crew agency path where they are screened and hired by an agency on behalf of the captain on the basis of their qualifications, experience and verified references, coming into the USA on a valid letter of employment, hopefully bright enough to have a SDB accompanying.

What amazes me that this issue is not specific to the USA. It appear that the same collection of laws is in place around the developed world. No country wants to have foreign nationals competing with citizens in the hunt for jobs as far as I have been able to discover. (Caveat: If you have buckets full of lucre, almost any country will grant you the right to work there.)

(Off the Topic) The prior reference to the Schengen Treaty comes to mind as a fun challenge to a US citizen that wants to spend (money) six months for the summer season in the Mediterranean (not even job seeking). Given that the Schengen Treaty says three months only without a lot of hoops to jump through to get extended stay visas in multiple countries -- bring your immigration attorney.

The language regarding foreigners seeking employment is crystal clear. Some people just imagine it means something else for them.

Traveling "on" a seaman's discharge book is no different than traveling on a library book. It is not a visa and it does not take the place of a passport. While it might help show you have worked on a boat or might in the future, anyone with a friend on a boat and an STCW basic training certificate can plunk down $100 and buy one. It does not show that you are entitled to enter the US or any other country.

What is so amazing about that? Many countries are far more picky about letting foreigners into the country and in many others, only Heaven can help them if they are caught trying to work.

I had a contract job with a company doing some very important work for the government of Mexico a few years ago. They contracted the people I was working for, I filled out a ton of paperwork to get a work permit before leaving to go down there, and once I arrived none of us could start working until the local Federales did their own investigation and confiscated our passports for the duration. Try dockwalking in Cabo some time if Lauderdale seems a bit oppressive.

I have heard of this on another blog, but yet to read of any 1st hand accounts.
In a nutshell, here is reality is on the water when it comes to crew. Take this from a long time industry veteran who has been dealing with this for many years and gone to many meetings.
1. The proper visa for yacht crew is the B1/B2 and not the C1/D
2. When checking in with your crew, you will be stamp in on the B1 (business visa)
3. As Captain you are not responsible for your crew once they leave your employ, it is up to the crewmember to leave or tell INS that they are now on the B2 ( tourist visa)
4.Coming in on the B1/B2 visa, you cannot look for work, solicit work, or except employment.
5. If you happen to meet a future crew member by accident while at the local waterhole, you should send them out of the country and return them with a letter of employment, ships registration and cruising itinerary.
6. At this time they should be admitted (I said should), they will usually give them 6 months, depending on the cruising plans.
7. Always try to have your crew enter the US through a major hub, like Miami or Ft. Lauderdale. If they come in thru a smaller port they might have problems.

Reality is crew are coming to Ft. Lauderdale to find work, and chances are the boat is leaving the US for the winter or longer. I enjoy the freedom to have the flexibility to hire all nationalities, it really makes the pool of candidates that much larger.

If crew were caught looking for jobs, they deserve to be deported, rules are rules. Most countries look poorly on foreigners looking for work in there country. When it comes down to it, many boats will not hire Americans for various reasons. In practice I hire all nationalities on my foreign flagged boat, and right now we are mostly US or green card aboard.

That first statement is just plain weird.

There are too many variations on that rumour to even comment. Take some time to study the yacht insurance business.

Back to the books again, cap. And you might want to take a look at the registration status of yachts entering the US.

Saying that US manning requirements for USCG inspected vessels are "aimed at" Florida's sales tax or has anythng to do with foreign yachts is weird.

The feds don't care about Florida's tax collections, they still want their import duties if the boat is imported. And Florida tax status or federal import status is totally irrelevant as far as manning requirements. They are an onions to footballs comparison.

What does this have to do with anything? It matters not if he has broken a law- try to take one statement at a time and deal with that then move on. If someone is breaking the law and potentially taking a job an American could have, while in the USA, I think we should all speak up about it.

Are you suggesting that Americans do not work on foreign flagged vessels? Ask Marmot to pass along a unicorn question about your planet.

He made no such comparison- he said if you break a law you are a criminal and used a law breaker in Madoff as an example- not a comparison.

Illegal crew at flibs

Originally Posted by Marmot
...
By cappies definition we're all a bunch of Madoffs. As far as looking for someone to go home with check with dennismc, he was looking for a change.

Not looking for a change here !!! spare change if any around.....

At one time long ago I was considering immigrating to California, hired a local attorney, could come in under a special treaty trader provision, purchase a local business, BUT..one purchased, had to leave the US, make application for entry under the special deal and wait, in the meantime who ever is running the biz, in my absence probably would have it busted by the time I got approval.
Was not worth the pain or risk and I did better here in BC.

Do it legally or not at all...at that time Immigration from Iran was really hot and a brother of one of his clients who did get a green card tried to bribe the lawyer with a 100K gift in a briefcase, lawyer would have lost his US Citizenship if he did that.