Click for Abeking Click for JetForums Click for Furuno Click for MotorCheck Click for Westport

Crossroads

Discussion in 'Licensing & Education' started by Krillin, Aug 5, 2014.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Krillin

    Krillin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Hello to all in the Yacht Forums,

    My real name is Alex, 22, and I'm currently finishing up my final year as a mechanical engineering student. I've spent a better part of my life in the ocean out of Miami, FL, on a wide variety of powerboats, sportsfishing boats, and PWC's. I absolutely love the ocean and being near it. I consider it my second home.

    I'm finishing up my engineering internship with a prestigious engineering company and I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I'm about to receive a full-time offer with the company, but I recently came to the realization that I cannot see myself enjoying working in Corporate America. It was then I looked into yacht engineering due to my pelagic passion and some experience working with internal combustion engines. I looked up certifications I would require: STCW-95, AEC, Y-Certifications, etc. and I am more than willing to get these upon completing school next May.

    So my main question to my fellow experienced members is how valuable is it for someone in my position, with the experience I have on the water, as well as my B.S. in Mechanical Engineering degree, and marine certifications in the yacht engineering labor market?
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Welcome to YF Krillin. Some others more qualified in engineering will undoubtedly chime in with some very sage advice. What I can tell you is one obvious thing. There's more jobs on land. That said though I think it's probably a bit easier going from maritime experience to land than visa/versa. Also, at 22, this is the time to follow your dreams. You're already in a good location to get a start.

    P.S. I think you'll find more than a few people here who share your view of "I cannot see myself enjoying working in Corporate America". Many times when I have a hard day I think of going back to the working on land. Then, after very little thought, I realize that I'd probably go postal within a week.
  3. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,388
    Location:
    My Office
    Go the commercial route if you can, the commercial tickets are valid on yachts and as more and more bigger ones (over 3000GT) come out there will be more jobs that need them.
  4. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    Hello Alex,
    Go get your STCW and put your Cv out there as a deckie / second engineer and take anything that comes along. You need to find out if the "lifestyle" of a yachtie is for you as it's not for everybody. You have to realize not only the working side of it but the everyday living with ten plus people 24 hours a day and the small space that you'll share with a room mate. Think of your walk in closet at home, now take your bunk, your dresser, and shower sink and toilet and put it in there, that pretty much sums it up space wise. I'm not being negative Nelly here just trying to give you a visual. On the plus side your B.S. In Mechanical Engineering will carry over some credit time if you choose to attend a Maritime Academy for commercial engineering credentials as that really is the most rapid and reliable way to climb the credential ladder these days engineering wise. Unfortunately , The only other way for obtaining your engineers credentials is sea time under the supervision of licensed chiefs that youll be working with and incremental testing. The industry needs good engineers and I wish you great success if yachting is the path that you choose. Try it for 6 months in any capacity that you can get aboard and then revisit what you've accomplished education wise and the options that are out ahead of you.
  5. Krillin

    Krillin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Thank you everyone for your input, I greatly appreciate the sound advice. Whether your advice may seem positive or negative, as long as it's honest and most accurate based on your experience, then I'll definitely take heed to it.

    NYCAP123: Thank you for the warm welcome. After my internship experience, I want to ensure whatever career path I choose, it will be because I truly enjoy it rather than my salary. I feel like if I were to take the job, it would be a long time before I see the oceans again, something I cannot imagine happening to me and living comfortably.

    K1W1: Do you have any reason to believe more larger yachts are on the way??

    For captholli, I really don't mind closed quarters as I'm pretty compact myself, making it easy for me to work on engines in tight spaces. I like to think of myself as having good people skills, so I don't expect to have any issues with decent crews, captains, or anyone else onboard.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I post as an owner, potential employer rather than an engineer. K1W1 certainly gives the perspective from an engineer's viewpoint.

    Owners and Employers look for different things just as they do in any industry. Some want exact experience on what they have and want people who followed a certain, common path. They hire to fill positions.

    Others of us hire individuals to not just fill a current need, but who can do more. We like people with multiple skills and experience. Our engineer grew up on his family's yachts, got his engineering degree and his master's from MIT. Then he spent two years in Indy Racing as an engineer. Only then did he come back to realize what he wanted and he went to maritime school and got commercial jobs before moving to yachts.

    The point is that some will look at your background as a negative but others of us will look at that as a positive if you combine it with continued education and experience. Technology continues to evolve and there will always be a place for those who can continue to grow. I look at the best engineers I know, including some on this site, and their knowledge exceeds what their current position requires, but then one would be confident that they could handle new things as they come along.

    I think there will always be a place for those who develop their skills and are continuing to grow. Meanwhile those who are expert on one type boat or specific engines only may find themselves on the outside looking in. I'd also agree with K1W1 on the over 3000 GT. While there will be many engineers with licenses for smaller boats and engines, there will be limited at the upper level. And unlike many industries, being over qualified does not seem to work against one, so if after the years of gaining experience and credentials, you find a yacht is where you want to be, whatever size you choose, you should easily be able to move to what you want. At that point you may choose between dollars and your preferred type boat.

    Now to the detailed path to get there and the technical aspects of engineering, I admittedly know very little. That's why I hire one who knows.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    One other thing to consider is that when you turn a hobby into your job it becomes a job. I can't remember when was the last time I stepped on a boat for pleasure. If you get an offer that pays you enough to buy a nice toy that's something else to consider.

    As for close quarters, I once interviewed with my wife for a position on a very nice 90 footer. When she saw the quarters her statement was "You can take the job if you like, but I won't be there". Also, it's nice to sleep in your own bed every night. There's also more opportunity for a steady social life on shore....Lots to consider, but at least you're at the right age to experiment.

    BTW, when I was just a little older than you are I moved from NYC to about 60 miles east on Long Island.......via Tucson, Az. Long boring story, but if I hadn't followed my dream I wouldn't be where and who I am right now.
  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,388
    Location:
    My Office
    Yes, 30 yrs in the business, when I started I thought a 50m yacht was a world beater, that illusion didn't last long coupled with the fact that I am Chief Engineer on one at present.
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,388
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    That is a very good way to describe many yachts, things are on the up and up however with the effects of MLC 2006 now being seen particularly on the big ones
  10. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    In The Bilge
    K1W1,
    Funny thing, I was aboard a new build last month that was contracted and built to LY3 rules designed by Andrew Winch and was happy to see improvements overall in the lower deck crew arraingements but was shocked that while the floor space had increased in the cabins the bunks width hadn't budged one bit? Granted that your only in your rack for six or seven hours(if your lucky) but what I wouldn't do not to stick my elbow or knee into a bulkhead or port light blind! Most of the 55 meter and up builds have sole or dedicated chiefs cabins but the junior crew now have room to put their shorts on and the door swings allow you to access the head without turning sideways .
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    You see it at all levels. Owners don't give crew comfort enough consideration, in my opinion. I see crew members stuffed in the crew cabin on a small Princess or a Riva or small Sunseeker. Some builders however do an excellent job and provide excellent quarters for an engineer even in a 100-150' range.
  12. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    Germany
    I have to agree with KIWI. Go the commercial route. Your unlimited commercial tickets are recognized by all flag states and valid for all yachts above and below 3000 GT and your are of much higher "value" for your employer, because of you greater experience and deeper knowledge. And most of all, there is a two way door for you forth and back into both worlds.

    The only problem is, when comming from the commercial world, you will be used to single cabins with a minimum of 7 square meters of floor area, "ensuite" toilet and shower and full standing height.

    On a yacht, especially on those Med type fast boats below 200 GT, those crew quarters like walk-in closets are reality. But with the constraint that you have to share this cage with annother crewmember and full standing height cannot be guaranteed :p.

    And yes again, yachts are getting bigger and bigger. In the sixties, a 60 ft yacht was large. In the seventies, a 100 ft boat was a sensation in any harbour in the Med. In the eighties, a 200 ft yacht was a a rare species. Today, more and more yachts are bigger than 3000 GT and 280 ft in length. The first privatly owned and used 650 ft yacht is on the drawing board.

    Will say, going the commercial route has only advantages. The only thing you might miss for a few years on your box carrier or cruide oil carrier, is a little bit of glamour, which you might see from distance on a large yacht.
  13. Krillin

    Krillin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    olderboater:

    I completely agree on your perspective for those who wish to grow, both personally and professionally. Modern technology is only changing faster and those who get ahead are those who are effective at adapting with incessant ongoing changes. You must be able to change if you want to succeed. For example, I have good experience with internal combustion engines, however, I lack in working with electronics, something I know a yacht engineer faces onboard. Even though I lack experience and knowledge with electronics, I would be more than willing to learn in order to enhance my career in the yacht industry.

    I also noticed you're in Fort Lauderdale, are there any places in particular you would recommend to get my certifications?

    K1W1 and NYCAP123:

    Can you guys elaborate more on your journey and how you guys ended up where you are today? And do owners allow for engineers or captains to have their spouses onboard during trips?

    NYCAP123, would you consider turning your hobby into a job as a negative or positive impact? And if you could do it all over again, would you have followed your dream and moved out to Long Island again, or do things differently?
  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,388
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    Not well known for his over spacious rooms even above the tank/lower deck in my experience.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,388
    Location:
    My Office
    Diesel Mechanic who went to see then discovered yachts could actually provide an income and lifestyle.

    Very rarely indeed can you have your non crew spouse onboard a yacht on trips other than deliveries and even then it isn't always easy given the cabin arrangements.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    A definite negative of a career in yachting is the difficulty it presents in relationships, starting with just building them and including marriages. It's a job that has you away from home much, if not most, of the time.

    As to bringing girl friends or spouses along, that's a further problem. You don't see businesses have "take your wife to work month." Even when the other person is also a yacht professional, such as a stew or cook or even captain, only a very limited number of owners is receptive to such an arrangement. It potentially complicates so many matters on board. That said, there are a few of us who have hired couples and had it work well, but it takes a special couple and a special situation.

    But a non crew spouse would be so rarely allowed that you need to assume the answer to that is always no.

    The separation from spouse and family of those in yacht professions isn't as bad as the active military but it's along similar lines. It's far worse than businessmen or salesmen who travel because they generally are home for the weekends. You likely will be apart for months at a time.
  17. Krillin

    Krillin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Yea, I figured that would be the case with spouses, being that the yacht is a working environment.

    In general, do you spend more time on shore on the water?
  18. Perlmudder

    Perlmudder Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    76
    Location:
    Toronto/Crystal Beach
    I can give you a little different perspective. I was 23 when I moved down to Ft Lauderdale to work on boats. I was the same, grew up on the water and loved boating, figured, why not make a living doing it. I ended up working on a 145. Thinking back on the experience I remember both the amazing experiences, places, and people I met, and all the exhausting experiences. Months away from home, never being able to see my family, only to get 2 days off to fly home then come back to work. It is an interesting situation to be put into, living in super tight quarters with lots of people. But like others have said, when you turn your passion into a job, it sometimes takes away from your passion. On the other hand, people say when you love what you do, you never work a day in your life.

    In the end when I left Florida, I ended up coming back to Toronto and got a job running a private 60ft boat doing day cruises around Toronto. I did that full time for the season for 5 years. I met tons of wonderful people, made great business connections, and eventually transferred over to just managing the boat, and I interviewed and found a replacement captain to take over since I now have a full time job.

    For me it was great. I got to go boating every day, and got to go home every night. I had a life outside of work, and I slept in my bed every night.

    Now if my boss needs anything done, I can arrange it with a few phone calls, but I do not need to be there every day. The best part is, I can use the boat any time I want.

    Now would I change anything, not at all, I experienced some of the most amazing places, made lifelong friends, and this strange path lead me to a career that I never intended to be in, but I love. I have even made a couple repeat visits to the 145 for vacation and a delivery. The best part now is when I leave work on Friday afternoon, I drive to my cottage, and get to use my boat, and whenever I get sick of Toronto in the winter, I fly down to Florida and visit my friends I made while there.

    Enjoy the ride, you never know where you will end up.
  19. Krillin

    Krillin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    You paint a pretty good picture, Perlmudder. From what I interpret, you followed what you loved, payed your dues, and are now living the good life. I see myself going down a strange path as well. I'm currently on one right now by being in Kentucky for an engineering internship working on locomotives. Something I would never have imagined happening to someone who was born and raised in South Florida.

    Few questions:
    What made you go to Ft. Lauderdale?
    How did you end up on that 145'?
    What certifications do you hold and how long did it take you to get them?
  20. Perlmudder

    Perlmudder Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    76
    Location:
    Toronto/Crystal Beach
    Choosing to move to Ft. Lauderdale came after a regatta with many drinks, and my friend was in the same position as I was, and we hatched a plan to move down right before the Lauderdale show. Had been thinking about it for a while, but was put on hold till school was finished, and I was in a position to move down there, make a go of it, and not live in a crap place. Luckily I had a good job before I left, so it just took a bit of saving to allow me to live pretty well while job hunting.

    I did the typical dock walking, went to the countless crew events around town, and eventually through getting various day work jobs, a kid I was working with landed a job at Rybo, and the boat next to him was looking for a new deckhand. I got a number and email, and it happened me and the captain had a bit in common and they had Zuma sailboats on board, and I could sail. It was all luck of the draw and meeting people, day working. I had no luck with crew agencies. I actually lucked out, and had steady day work for all but one week of the two months it took to find a home on a boat.

    As for certifications, I have no Captains license. I started and got my STCW first week there. I had my Pleasure craft operators card, harbour license, thousands of hours behind the wheel of various powerboats, and a decade of crewing in regattas on various sailboats. I was also a lifesaving and first aid instructor.