100Ton Licensed Captain - Not Hired as captain

Blame the GOP

What? You don't like the answers you got on all the other forums?

Haven't you called the local MSO yet either?

You are the professional.

Agree; and you may want to look into your own liability insurance [I would]. You may be able to negotiate the premium as part of your compensation, and depending on your employment contract and coverage by the owner's insurance, it probably won't be too expensive.

I know that as a license holder you are expected to know the limits and responsibilities of holding that license. I know that you are obligated to know how to determine which regulations apply to you under what conditions. I also know that phoning a CG office and hoping to find someone to give you a "Cliff's Notes" version of your standing in any particular instance is both ignorant and a waste of other people's time.

If you want a legal opinion, go to a lawyer. If you want the CG version, contact the CG in writing with specific questions. You might be surprised to find out that they will provide you with an answer.

There are many admiralty lawyers and license defense lawyers in the phone book. Call one if you can't be bothered to write letters to the CG. Don't expect recreational boaters on a website to provide you with legal advice.

Great point.

Some years ago I was in almost the same boat:
An owner of a 70' M/Y needed to hire a Licensed Mate as the insurance company required it.

I told him I would be happy to take the job, but if we were running on my ticket, then I would be the Captain and the owner would be the Mate.

He accepted and paid accordingly.

With you and your ticket onboard, take charge and even give lessons if and when needed, but don't let them run around drunk and If something happens, all of a sudden you are The Man...

You don't really need a law license to understand how these things will pan out. Financial liability will go mostly against the owner and his insurance company because they're the deep pockets. That doesn't mean you won't come out financially ruined though, and legal (and reputation) responsibility will definitely fall to the license holder. He's the professional. If you call in an electrician to wire a box and he says you can't put any more circuits on, and you say I'm just going to put another line on this breaker, how do you thing it'll work out for the electrician if the house burns? "But I only watched him do it and said it's ok" isn't going to cut it.

Your words indicate that it was the homeower who pulls the wire, the responsibility rests with whoever connected it up and applied the juice.

If the electrician left when you suggested doing it yourself how could he be expected to shoulder any responsibility?

Here's is another one for the masses to ponder.

If there are two onboard with the same license who is responsible for mistakes and errors then?

Yes, in the illustration the homeowner pulls the wire, but no, the electrician is standing there saying he can't do it but it's ok (same as the captain standing there and and letting the owner to act recklessly. In both cases the owner will plead ignorance and say they depended on the professional's opinion. Again, the reality of our legal system says the lawyers will go for the deep pockets, and since both owners are 'at the helm', they're liable. But responsibility goes with the license. Do you really think that either will keep their license? Would you ever hire either with this recklessness on their record? Do you really think that either would still have a business, home or assets afterwards.

Do you remember that boat that turned turtle last summer here in Glen Cove? There was screaming right here (and from lawyers) about the fact that there was a captain on board (even though I don't believe he was a hired captain). Many were out to crucify him.

As for the scenario with two licenses on board, there always needs to be a clear understanding about whose boat it is. Like when a pilot flies between flights. He generally sits in the cabin or maybe the jump seat in the cockpit. He doesn't sit in the pilots seat. If he does, he takes on the responsibility of pilot.

On the OP's boat he is the ONLY license.

If a pilot sits in the right seat he has accepted the responsibility of co-pilot. If he sits in the left seat he has accepted the responsibility of pilot. If a licensed Master is hired on a boat, and is the only license on board, he'd best have a clear understanding that he's only being hired as a deck-hand with no responsibility. When the S--- hits the fan that "understanding" may not be so clear when an owner is facing financial ruin and/or jail time. The cops and media he meets on the dock won't be real accepting of that "understanding" and it's already been shown (in the thread about that boat that turned turtle) that the professionals here won't be real accepting of that "understanding".

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...incident-alleged-overloaded-34-silverton.html

Oh Geez, Ed, give it up. Right or left seat doesn't mean squat. Ever drive a helicopter? Even been a flight instructor? Ever driven an airplane from the right just for grins or to give someone the view from the left seat? Ever flown a tandem seat aircraft?

If you want legal advice, hire a lawyer. If you want case law, hire a legal aid to do the research. If you want to chat about the concept of who is "responsible" for what, make buddies with an NTSB administrative law judge and go fishing.

Hi,

I have sat in both seats on a G IV on trans Atlantic trips at night to keep the occupant of the other seat company at no time did I feel I had any role or responsibility in operating the aircraft.

If I am travelling on a ship and there are problems such as a pollution incident I do not think I will have problems even if my ticket is of a higher level than the folks on board.

The flight example is an tangent and an analogy brought up by K1W1 I use it only to point to the fact that if you take responsibility you accept responsibility. Personally I try to keep my feet no higher than a wave will carry it. And yes there are exceptions to every rule and degrees of responsibility and liability. The OP was hired as a captain, used as a boat washer and carried on board for his license. He needs to be very clear about what his responsibilities are and aren't BEFORE any situation arises.

P.S. Marmot I seem to remember you voicing more than a few legal opinions about liability, for instance on a windy day when I moved a boat. Since liability law often comes down to who invests the most money in the case I'll stick with common sense and caution.

I think the OP is quite capable of hiring an attorney to hear legaleze if he wants to waste his money and still get no answers. He came here of opinions of people in the business in English.