Italian built vs Dutch built superyachts

Hi and welcome to YF.

Maybe this thread could be interesting for you http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...on/19341-italian-shipyard-quality-2012-a.html

In this thread is also a comparison with dutch built yachts.

For the record: Drettmann is a German company but the Elegance Yachts were built in Taiwan and now the yachts will be build in Turkey (Drettmann-Sunrise Yachts). Not sure if all but not in Germany

I don't really deal with many megayachts nowadays, however, I have worked on a 172' Feadship and 160' Delta as well as a long range canoe stern 97' Italian built boat as well as running many 100-115' just for a day here or there. The Feadship was extremely well thought out, there was storage everywhere, and there wasn't any wasted space. The Italian yacht had some things that you just couldn't get around. Nuances, the entrance to the engine room was too small and getting any parts in and out a mission, some spaces were really tough to access, none of the appliances in the entire boat could be replaced without cutting a hole in the boat, all doorways were narrow, things like that, that made life as crew miserable. The Delta was better at access doorways, but the build quality of the joinery behind what you normally saw was VERY sloppy, getting around on the yacht wasn't well thought out in regards to the decks, up stairs, across the second level, back down another set of stairs to get back to the 1st level on an outside deck...... I think there is a big difference in the build quality between a Feadship and most Italian builds. The question is, whether the owner would ever notice this in his cruising.

I just delivered a new Italian express, and I've delivered many brand new boats. I have never and I mean never seen so many things break on a delivery, and lack of access was a big problem. We had a hot water flood in the VIP, well to get to the whale 90 degree fitting, we had to destroy the entire nightstand, they had both hot and cold water lines run through the nightstand and you could see the start of the fitting, but there was no access at all to actually fix it. Things like this, make a small 5 minute repair a 1/2 day job. And, I've seen lack of thought of foresight from a lot of Italian builders for access and repairs, that make a simple repair, a nightmare.

Azimut/Benetti/SanLorenzo: when it comes to the number of yacht being built, they sure must do things right: one look at the Global Order book, and I was astounded at how many ships they have under construction! Must be huge factories/operations/sheds over there.

Italian Built VS Dutch Built Super Yachts reaction

I did notice your discussion on quality of super yachts
while there are yachts being build under Lloyds register
at Italy and Holland the out come may fairy when it come s to
ergonomics and accessibility of technical space s and quality.

I also know that it depends on the Lloyd surveyor inspector.
It can happen that one day the surveyor does approve on the drawings
And than the next month it may be not approved this has al to do with
the surveyor s own opinion whitin Lloyds register regulation.
Because his signature and approval has his responsibility.
Here at the Netherlands the Lloyds rules may be the rules but i seen
simply the fact that it s better save than sorry.
As a result: most Dutch super yacht builders want the maximum quality.

Where it come s to ergonomics the layout of a yacht is not being discussed much.
But at Holland after sale s and maintenance are important ,
so easy modify ,repairs is of importance this results to smart use of space and again accessibility.

Finally customer satisfaction -At the Netherlands as i did experience
It goes just a step beyond.
Because they want the customer also again as client for a refit or modify or a next new build yacht in the future .
Lot s of affords are being made even tho if it seems impossible to do.

Kind Regards ,Arethusa The Netherlands
Mechanic

Ohhhhh they surely do.....they make them look sexy......sometimes they even make junk look sexy!

I know of a San Lorenzo that was around 95' that was launched a few years back, it listed 16 degrees and almost tipped over. Their answer was to add 21 tons of ballast to the other side.....I dealt with an owner whose very good friend had hull #2 in the build process, when he watched the launch of hull #1, he instantly sold hull #2 before it was even close to being finished and he went on to order a Moonen that he is extremely happy with. Azimut's have had their share of less than stellar build quality results as can be found by doing a search on this forum.

Any one who has first-hand experience can share some information about the difference between top tier builders if it exists, for example, let's say lurssen and feadship, in terms of technology, details or general build quality?
I'm simply a fan of their masterpieces.Never had a chance to see in person any of these beautiful babes from the two prestigious shipyards.. But from a fan's perspective. I can still notice some differences.
1. Lurssen seems a little bit more technology advanced? when feadship celebrated their naval achievement of MY predator which is incredible for sure. But to me, Carinthia VII and Rising Sun had been there for many years with similar propulsion and higher speed. not to mention the spectacular MY Ice, the indoor tender garage which lurssen adopted first and later led the industry trend, ...etc
Due all respect to yacht builders, I don't think anyone beside lurssen/B&V can build MY Octopus even today
2. feadship is more detail oriented. It's hard to describe, maybe not, it could just be my personal opinion. For example, the wind shield/window panel is flat on many lurssen's upper/owner's deck even their whole theme is curvier than most feadships,why not keep style in accordance, cost wise? I don't know. and you can tell a lot of parts are very standardized. While, if you check carefully at Musashi/fountainhead and many other feadships, they just look, should I say, more customized?
On the other hand, lurssen's metal cut capacity makes their yachts' profiles shape whatever owners want(not always in a good way) compared to feadship's unmistakable appeal(except a few recently launched).
3. feadship knows how to do business better. More media exposure, more ads, more promotions, better website even after lurssen updated its own.
Feadship's pictures even look more fabulous with better reflection, more close shots.

Some points to know.

- You have two choices of build when inspecting from Class. Most 80feet plus Yachts have there designs class approved. In Italy this also happens for smaller vessels, altough not to A1 standard.
Being design approve and having a survey on construcition is a totally different matter. This normaly depends from owner, and what he wants to do with the yacht. A class certified construction with surveyor in build can cost an extra 1 million EURO easy in a 25 meter.
- last comparing Sunseeker to Moonen is way wrong. I consider Ferretti a better build to Sunseeker especially in technical areas. Even Azimuts built in Viareggio 80 feet plus are IMO better to a big Sunseeker,and Princesses for that same size. OTOH I consider Azimut and Ferretti, behind a custom steel or alloy built Moonen of the same length. Ferretti also rides better to a Sunseeker in high seas. If you go to other builders from Viareggio the bar is even higher IMO especially when we speak of construction and technical details.
May be Sunseeker would be better to Italians in the electrical area, but I have never been so luck to find such superiority in the smaller vessels.

Recent Baglietto do not keep there prices as much as older ones, and the company is more famous for its fast series, which ride exceptional well, and keep quiet a high price. Only Admiral in its previous founding management rode as well. The new Tecnomar ones we have to wait and see.
I think the price difference is also subject to the design, the Italian offering usually a more modern flare to the Dutch in the medium super yacht sizes (24 - 40 meter), meaning a younger (not only in age but also in yachting experience) customer who makes fast, but also looses them fast too.
I am also speaking of interest here, not just of cash.
Feadship immensly nice in details especially over-time but I remember a surveyor telling me when we had two recent Feadships with very low bows. How do these builders thing that this boat will ride in a Force 9 head sea in an Atlantic crossing. Bow in the water..... BTW a planning 30 meter Adimral had a higher bow, and a Codecasa next to it of the same size had more then double.

I am pro-Italian, in any case so you know it, and I dont see much of the things Capt J sees. Altough delivering new boats which dismantle is very normal in fast boats, of many makes. Some of them usually also want to sink from something stupid done from the workers on a Friday.

Was this not posted on forum by some-1 else?

Anyhow I never saw a Sanlorenzo list over by more then an inch, so I am waiting for pictures of this nearly tipped over San Lorenzo. I was also fortunate to board hull one of the SD92 series in its maiden voyage, and the boat according to the captain was spot less.

Anyhow I know couple Sanlorenzo 72 and 82 owners most of them come from higher volume builders; Sunseeker, Fairline, Ferretti etc and most of them will tell you it is the best boat they ever had in terms of quality. Most of these owners helm the boats themselves and use crew for maintenance.

Hi,

Would you care to share with the forum a designers brief or yacht building contract that states the vessel must be for service in these extremes?

Come on KiWi lets not mince Words in a lawyer way.

You are buying a pleasure yacht whatever the size advertised in nice sunny waters, but as they say in our parts the sea has a soft belly and a hard head.

Force 9 Seas not only happen in the Atlantic Ocean but also here in the Med. Actually like with like a gale plus wind sea in the med is usually worse to that of an Ocean because of the different currents, and shorter steep waves. Here in Central Med we have a couple Force 9 a year, sometimes they happen even in end Summer like September, or early like May.
A friend of myn got the Bora Force 8 in Croatia in August in a 15 meter starting in a very sunny morning flat seas morning.
Since a yacht of 24 meters+ is meant to travel, finding high seas is not a question of service, it is that bad weather happens, and its a natural cycle of our planet.

To OP: I've been in similar position but actually advising prospect Owners, and the correct answer seems to be: get your own goddang technical team!

Surveyer you can trust (on 20mil+ boat that might easily be a team of more then one), a knowledgeable Capitan (yeah, there are many benefits to actually seeking for your Cap before seeking for your ship!), a finance/law team (hehe that's where we come into picture), again for 20mil+ yacht a smart Owner would consider his further yacht management setup (flag/registration, form of ownership, charter/no, etc) BEFOREHAND.

After all that said and done, you won't need to depend on "general country concepts" for your choices Just work on per-exact-boat basics.

In my cases the general concept of "Italian build being on average somewhat funnier then Northern" proved right, but there are certainly some quality gems among the former and some overpriced ugly ducks with not-so-well engineering among the latter.

Those "best among Italian" tend to be a bargain, but as said, you would need effort to find one. The average Italian boat also has this sneaky, not-so-obvious point of loosing you on resale value whatever you "won" at the initial price point. For a fresh Owner who is statistically all but guaranteed to swap boats in few years this is actual issue.

Towards the upper end of yachting industry, more and more % of the end price of the boat starts coming from interior, decorations and other subjective matters. So if you're happy with the boat but unhappy with gold plated bathrooms and plan a refit, might consider a new build where you don't have to pay for expensive things you're going to throw away.
(Feadship has nice line of semi-customs they can deliver fairly fast, from all I heard, those are quite good boats)

With regards to Italian builders, and speaking from experience of owning... sexy sells. Function and reliability are second at best.

As we used to tell customers: Fast, Reliable, Cheep.
Pick two.