US destroyer collides with oil tanker in Gulf

Navy Ship Collides With Oil Tanker in Strait of Hormuz | Video - ABC News

How on earth does something like this happen on a US Navy ship. If anyone has a complete crew at all times it is them. One would think that if they could collide with an oil tanker, that just about anyone would be able to collide with them.

If the ABC News account is accurate and the U.S.N ship turned into the path of the tanker, somebody has a lot of "splaining to do! How does that happen accidently?

"unfortunately, career enders" ...

Why is it unfortunate? It looks like it is a bit late, the damage is done, just be happy it wasn't worse.

This is the natural result of a culture of military worship that has taken on a life of its own in the US. Look at every nation that has fallen for that disease and see where it lead them. Wrecking a ship is just a symptom of the arrogance of a class that thinks it is above those it is supposed to serve.

I assume you meant self-worship? If not, please expound the thought.

Thank you Marmot. Those who forget, or do not learn history are bound to repeat it.

Your comments about the arrogance of authority correspond to mine.

Hormuz

Anybody that has been through the Straits of Hormuz will tell you "by the Grace of God go I".

Super tankers (ULCC's) with deep drafts have a bit of difficulty getting out of the way, illegal dhows with no lights plus the high speed container ships all added to the mix with the numerous naval ships and all in narrow shipping channels makes for a hazardous area.

Having been through there a few times on large ships moving at a fairly good clip I can say that God had sweet Fannay Adam to do with our not hitting anyone else.

If the moron with the 12 lookouts and a billion dollar radar can't avoid a ship the size of an apartment building the problem is not one of seafaring.

Hormuz

So lets start up a discussion about who has been through the Straits more or reply to each other like two marine engineers who have probably been through as many times as each other but have never had "sweet Fannay Adam" anything to do with the navigation of any of those big steel things that some how float.

My point was, is, a deep draft vessel passing thru the straits has to stay in the traffic lanes and then you get a naval vessel at moderate to high speed having to change course due to cross traffic or an unlit dhow and it would be very easy to have a collision. Wait for an inquiry for the truth or jump all over the crew as others normally do without any facts.

What about a British sub going aground in Scotland, a British destroyer going aground off Aussie or was it NZ, or how can a US sub come up out of the water and hitting a japanese ship.

Of course there was the case of the US sub hitting the reef off Fort Lauderdale a few years ago when they thougth they were actually 4 hours away.

Maybe after all they should let us engineers steer the dam things

I suspect they thought they would be able to clear her given that the speed of USN vessel is greater again no idea what her speed was at the time but there decision cost them thus resulting in the collision .


Human error

I've been on the bridge during that passage several times. As far as steering goes, I got my master's ticket the same way everyone else has, by driving a boat.

The Strait is something like 20 miles wide at its narrowest. The TSS is 6 miles wide, 2 miles in, 2 miles out, 2 miles buffer. If for the sake of argument the destroyer and the tanker were on centerline of their respective lanes the destroyer would have had to move 48 shiplengths to place itself on the tanker's bow ... 4 miles at the very least.

This was not a "oh ****, there's a dhow, hard to port! .... 5 seconds later "CRASH ... oops"

Apologizies

Marmot, I must apologize as I had looked at your profile and read that you were a marine engineer, little did I know you were a master as well.

Obviously my experience of passing through the straights on a weekly basis for the best part of 7 months while on a shuttle tanker from Mina al Amadi to Bombay is nothing compared to your vast experience as a master.

Strangely enough as I looked at your profile I happened on a message sent from another member to you in which he thanked you for your vast knowledge and noted how similiar it was to a quick search on Google so I did like that and low and behold I found the same information about TSS, 2 miles etc.

Just to clear up a couple of things though you did not mention that the accident happened at 1am local time and that the tanker was empty inbound to the Persian Gulf and that the destroyer sustained major damage to the starbaord side.

and yes in a perfect world both would be in the centerline of their respective shipping lanes however what do you think if both were on the edge of their lanes, would you agree that they would be only 2 miles apart.

I am sure in your numeorus times being on the bridge passing thru' the straits you would have no problem turning a large tanker or high speed destroyer through that 90 degree turn right in the middle.

Now think if one ship was just a little late in turning and maybe the other a lttile early right at that 90 degree turn, that two mile seperation gets small very quickly.

Oh, I forgot to mention besides the unlit dhows in that area, the numeorus ships sometimes cut across the lanes to go the Gray McKenzie bouy which I am sure you have done on those numerous trips.

No doubt human error and amazing these things happen and when you "google" accidents in those areas this is not the first naval vessel accident in the last few years.

Regards from a marine engineer only.

WTF is your problem? I only mentioned my earning a masters ticket in response to your silly allusion that engineers don't know what goes on on the bridge. Get over it. I never even mentioned that ticket before and wouldn't have if it were not relevant to your comments.

So what is wrong with Googling the details rather than getting them wrong with regard to distances and the TSS details? Is it some kind of character defect now to look something up rather than post BS? Even your weekly transits weren't enough that you didn't look it up to check the details or were you just looking for ammunition or something?

And speaking of looking something up, look this up, it's the track of the Otowasan before, during, and after the collision:

Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions

If you got up to the bridge during all those transits you would know that the distance between TSS centerlines is 4 miles when you have a 2 mile buffer between 2 mile lanes. Should I draw a picture or just explain that the centerline of a 2 mile wide lane is 1 mile from the edge of a 2 mile buffer, that means 1 mile plus 2 miles plus 1 mile makes ... do you need another math hint?

If all you want to do is pick a fight at least pick something you can handle. Don't expect another response, I won't waste my time.

I knew this would be good! Can't wait to read the response. Has nothing to do with the thread, but great jousting {sp?}

This is one example of the many things I enjoy about Yachtforums....

The collision of massive egos on YF far exceeds the collision of ships at sea, both in terms of sheer numbers, but also in terms of the name calling and finger pointing that follows.

Tally Ho Boys! Have at it!

I think for the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show that Carl should get a Yachtforums booth and set up a boxing ring. I can think of about a dozen members we could pair against each other......then we can all bet on it.......hehehehehe

Yeah, no kidding, I think we have our first round line up right there... or they could change there r*gs and get on with it

Far

Was there any communications between the two vessels... both vessels have AIS, would it be possible for the US vessel to slow down to allow the Chinese boat some room? Anticipations I guess...

Far