Click for Mag Bay Click for Burger Click for Westport Click for Burger Click for Cross

Will Post build on speculation ?

Discussion in 'Post Yacht' started by chesapeake46, May 12, 2015.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay & S.Jersey
    Hi,
    I know this is a topic on other threads, as Matt46Post's thread has sort of wandered that way.
    I thought it'd be better to start again.

    One thought I had was that Worton might be better building a spec boat for no other reason than they can do it in private.
    If they make a mistake or things go sideways in the build, they can fix it, learn and move ahead.

    With a customer watching and in this day of social media, everything being scrutinized by arm chair boat builders, well, I'd rather unveil a finished product.

    Not saying anything against Worton Creek, I believe they are capable, but, the first is usually not the charm.
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    We've been this long with no first. Why do we think there ever will be one? If they were serious about it, they would have built a boat. If they aren't serious enough or can't afford to build one boat in advance then they're not in the business. They should do that and learn on their own boat. As to learning on someone else's boat, they'd be glad to I guess if someone were willing to pay enough and gamble on it.
  3. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay & S.Jersey
    Agreed, I was just thinking, if it were me, I'd rather not have a nervous customer wringing their hands over the build.

    O.B., have you ever had a new build ? I wonder how much time, say a 65 foot SF might take to build in a committed, well staffed yard.
    Like, how long might I expect, say, Viking to build one ?

    I don't imagine you could use a new build as " fill in " work for a crew, for instance, during the long cold winter months only.
  4. Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Beaufort NC
    In the one off custom world that 65 would take anywhere between 16 months to three years depending mainly on interior complexity. Production yards average around 3 months unless major changes are ordered (and accepted!).
  5. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay & S.Jersey
    Thank you Bill.
    3 months, wow.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I've had two new builds of semi-custom boats, pretty much production structures and basic equipment and customization of design so closer to production than custom. These would be similar to Viking. And as you might find with Viking, you might even purchase a boat that is already started into production. Ours both were already started by the builder so took 7 months and 10 months. The complete build process would have been about 9-10 months for a sub 100' and 12 months for 100'+. Meanwhile another builder I'm very familiar with would take closer to 2 years on the 100'. And because they have sold boats ahead of you, if you ordered a 100' from them today, you'd be talking 3 years.

    Now if purchasing a true production boat new, it all is a matter of where that model stands in production and how many builds ahead of it are already sold.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Building a 65 footer on spec is a very big gamble for a company with no real following. Sometimes people buy yards to build their boat and then sell others, but to buy a yard with the intention of building boats for sale and then end up building a boat for yourself is costly.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    If you can't afford to invest the cost of one boat in your business, then you can't afford to be in business. The reality is Post isn't in business today. They've never built, never sold, a single boat. Right now I'm just as much in the boat business as they are. Well, I take that back, they do have one thing I don't have-a website.
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Agree, today it's very much a case of go big or go home, and big gets pretty huge. Maybe their experience is in boat building rather than finance as it needs to be today, Or worse, neither.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    It's not even go big. Go big would be build two of each of the 8 boats in their line and inventory them in multiple locations. Building one or two boats is just not big. It's still tiny. Building one boat would cost them $3 million perhaps.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Only $3 million, eh?:D (I'd guess more like 1.5 but either way.... And if the 65 doesn't sell then the other 7 models in search of buyers. That's big by my standards, but it's not with business today. If they don't come in with 10 or 30 million in their back pocket someone else (their competition) will.
    Maybe they want the property for condos, and until that's ironed out they'll sell boats if paid in advance. Otherwise they'll just await the bulldozers.
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,434
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    POST?????? How many years has it been now, and not one boat has been built? Someone serious would build at least a boat or two and have it in inventory.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Absolutely right. I too wonder what value the name actually has as opposed to the value of the business as just a marina or brokerage or the land for development.
  14. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,261
    Location:
    Beaufort, NC
    Post was originally a NJ company. Worton Creek in Maryland is/was a going concern for many years, and bought the name and molds when Post went under. Rumor is they paid about $50K for what they got. No big investment, but they now have the name. The NJ real estate stayed in NJ.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Big difference between $50K and the million plus it would take to build a spec boat.
  16. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,261
    Location:
    Beaufort, NC
    I think they picked it up with no real plan in mind because it was inexpensive and presents opportunities. I have always thought that one of those opportunities is providing service, info and parts to existing Post owners (we all tend to be a little eccentric about our Posts). Once they do well on that side of the business, maybe someone buys off a sketch. I do think if they built one 42, one of Post's most popular sizes, and did it well, they could develop the Post market again. A 42 cost far less than $1m to build. I'd build it and run it around to all the shows in the NE, maybe even Florida, to demonstrate that they can get the job done with the same fit and finish as the old Post. Worton, in my opinion, has to treat this as a new entry into the market and therefore has to show a tangible, quality product. On the other hand, if they don't want to actually build maybe there is a lot more value for Worton in that name and mold to flip to an actual builder? The asset definitely has potential
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    You're looking at it from the perspective of a boater and maybe especially as a Post owner, not as an investor. Would they set up a manufacturing operation to make the parts? (big money)? Is anybody selling 42' boats these days? Last I heard the only things selling were big boats and center consoles. Were I an investor, I'd be inclined to sell the name Post, and then develop the property. Maybe a marina, but more likely a high end housing development
  18. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, Delaware Bay & S.Jersey
    This is kind of my point originally. The 42 would be the smallest investment but that market doesn't seem too good for the reasons you stated.

    I thought the larger boats, 65 ft & up were still selling.
  19. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,542
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    There's a reason Hatteras, Bertram prior to shutting down, Viking with the exception of a few boats, and other USA builders do not focus on Flybridge/Convertible boats under 50 feet.

    They can't make a profit on them. The under 50' Flybridge/Convertible market will not support a USA built price. That market is mostly covered by import boats like 43' Mikelson and 43' Riviera, etc.

    Hatteras used Cabo as their under 50' brand. I think Cabo had one flybridge boat in their line at the end. The rest were express and even the 40' express was close to a million dollar boat. The 35' flybridge was wildly successful. Why stop building it? Because nobody would pay $7o0K for it.