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What does a boat need to qualify as a classic?

Discussion in 'Vintage & Classic Yachts' started by bernd1972, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    classic or fake

    Whether it is appropriate to use the word "classic" in connection with your boat is a question of syntax - your boat is certainly not a "classic" in the true sense of the word (which to me means a design that has been proven by the test of time and generally that has inspired others to build similar - as is the case with you), nor is she a fake in that you're not (I assume) trying to deceive anyone about her origins.

    That is not a criticism of your beautiful boat, which although clearly inspired by, and built in the style and spirit of a "classic", is not one in her own right.
  2. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Defintely agree with you. I played with the typical style elements of a bygone time to create a boat with the most possible aura of authenticity I cold achieve. Nevertheless I would not pass it off a a historic vessel.
    And it certainly won´t influence the history of yacht design. So in that meaning the term "Classic" does not apply well.
    But I consider it as a gesture of appreciation for the work of yesterdays brilliant designers like John Wells and Walter McInnis.

    However, I think most people in the boating industry are too generous with the use of the term "classic" today. So I thought this might be worth discussing.
  3. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    classic or fake

    Id love to know more about her ..ie how /where you designed/built her and if she was the first such project you've undertaken? My "thing" is restoring "vintage " (Nb I dont use the word "classic") boats ... including a 26ft 1938 "Enclosed" ChrisCraft, a 1938 51ft Fred Shepherd Yawl, and currently a 1960 61ft Feadship
    best
    David

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  4. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    The term "classic" defintely applies to your boats, most probably all of them. the catboat is really cute.
    I really could be jealous for your fine old Feadship, is it from the deVries-yard?
    By the way,if you really can´t stand the temptation of installing a hardcover for the helm station I would do the bright wood version you showed in that other topic.
    My boat was the first of my deigns that has been built (my wife say it would be the last as well or I´d have to take the divorce into the budget calculation for the next :rolleyes: ), in a backyard in Germany.
    Took me 6 years, with no paid hands at the job. Hull and deck are cold moulded wood/epoxy composite with a generous amount of glass on it.
    The engines are pretty smll with only 165 HP each, but that showed to be sufficient to get 16 knots on the first test run in flat water (only 10m deep) so she should do about 18kn in open water, perhaps a little more if I play a little more with the props. Yes, a light and sleek hull hepls with getting a good fuel economy. 9 kn at about 1 liter per mile isn´t tht bad for 65ft.
    Currently I am doing the documentation on stability and so on for a registrtion as a comercial plesurecraft to do charter workin the Baltic. No such convinient thing as a six-pack license over here! They are so annoyingly strict with the requirements you can almost have it classed a well. But that should give no problems.
    My only concern at the moment is that I have to many project running at the moment. My son was born today, I´ll have to go to Greece for some time for planning a refit project for a customer before this month is over and I still have to get through that registration stuff with my boat before end of april. So no danger of getting bored for the next weeks. :D :D :D
  5. tirekicker11

    tirekicker11 Senior Member

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    Congrats!:)
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't own a Donzi classic. However, they have been making the same boat with no major changes for almost 50 years. It was the raceboat that started it all. I would say it could be called a classic. Just as a 13' Boston Whaler could be considered a classic because they made them for so long and virtually unchanged.

    Maybe not considered as classic as something from the 1910's.......but nonetheless, just as classic as a 1960's Roamer or Feadship or whichever.
  7. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    FANTASTIC news about the birth of your son !!! Congratulations . Its amazing that you built your boat yourself and Im surprised you found the spare time to marry and make a baby!

    My Feadship is in fact an Van Lent. I spent 2 years considering whether or not to fit a Pilot House but eventually figured that for Mediterranean use, its either too hot or too wet not to have one. Also, I think she looked a bit naked without a hard structure of some sort, especially as she only does 11 knots, and the open helm and "Chris-Craft" type side curved side coamings didn't really suit her heavy raised flared topsides and cruiser stern unless there was something to tie them all together. We tried many different configurations of style, size, finish, colour and window shape and eventually came up with the design that we are now building in ply and foam core. I chose the white finish rather than bright, partly because making the curves was very difficult in bright but mainly because bright looked a bit "fusty" (which basically means stodgy, heavy and old fashioned) - not quite the sexy 1960s feel I was after. However - and this is a BIG "however" - the Pilothouse is easily and quickly removable, 8 bolts hold it down on the side coamings and the handrail fittings, which are heavily reinforced within the structure are the lifting points. The whole process takes 2 men about 20 minutes from start to finish using a small crane. And not only that, but the doors are removable and take 2 minutes each to stow in the aft seats and the aft window screens are electric and drop down into the lockers . Accordingly, we have the choice of her being an "open" helm design with a light windscreen attached as per her original design, or "enclosed" with a Pilot House and then with a choice of having the Pilot House with or without doors and windows. The ultimate convertible!

    BTW I omitted to load a picture of the lovely yawl Amokura which we rebuilt from keel to truck but which I sadly (and stupidly) sold a few years ago.

    Are you in Germany? I go to Hamburg from time to time and in fact was there yesterday - i had a free hour before flying back to London and quickly walked around amazing Maritime time museum, which was quite extraordinary. Next trip I'm going to look over the beautiful Cap San Diego which looked as though she maybe started her engines yesterday as there was black smoke coming out of her funnels.

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  8. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    A tribute vessel, if you will.

    Your boat is beautiful in it's own right.

    Congratulations on your son.
  9. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Thanks all for the congratulations.

    @ David:
    Concerning your VanLent: I must admit that the roof looks perfectly right and youre doing a pretty good job on that project. Have you considered doing a rounded aft edge with that roof?
    I think that might go pretty well with the heavy old school character of that boat and match the elegant play with curves perfectly. Concerning the bright finish of the roof sides, that would still be no problem if you would apply vacuum tech and veneers to the outside.

    That old yawl is really stunning. I can easily understand you miss her. But certainly you can be proud of having saved her before handing the stewardship over to the next guy!

    Your questions: Yes, I live in Germany, unfortunately a little too far away from the coast, in Bielefeld.
    If you´re interested and can afford taking a few days off for seightseeing in the north of Germany I´d strongly recommend visiting the "Cap San Diego" (yes, the ship is still fully operational and a honorary member of the annual Hamburg harbour universary parade). But she rarely leaves her dock. The authentic cabins are availeabel for"ship and breakfast which could be an enjoyable alternative for a land-based hotel.
    Other interesting ships are the Hamburg-based steamer "Schaarhörn", which is the former yacht of the Hamburg senate and occasionally offers trips. Then of course the steam-powered icebreaker "Stettin" which has a regular cruising schedule, best place might be the engine room watching the giant triple expansion steam engine diong its work.
    Then there are some other steamers that are worth visiting: the paddle wheel coastal steamship Freya in Kiel which has a busy cruising schedule during summer for touristic tours and the coastal steam ship Alexandra in Flensburg. And you might want to visit the Maritime mueum in Bremerhaven at least once. Plan at least two days for that. The plans archive there is not public but you might visit it by appointment.
    And, of course, if I am in Kiel when you get there I´d enjoy welcoming you onboard my not so historic boat for a bottle of wine and a good talk about life, boats and other silly things.
  10. david_japp

    david_japp Senior Member

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    feadship

    Hi
    there is in fact a rounded "knuckle" at the aft end of the PH roof and sides but its not as big a radius as the rounded edge along the PH sides - I did try having the same radius all the way around but it reduced the headroom by too much ... the attache picture doesn't show it very well but the black /gray rolled edge will in fact be white as per rest of the structure
    we also thought long and hard about bright finish - we bright veneers, we couldn't have had as many compound curves as we have now but the main reason is that bright finish really wasn't great for this boat which already has a lot of bright along the side coamings and saloon sides and I think white is visually much "lighter"

    one of these days i'll make it to Kiel and I look forward to meeting you and seeing your amazing boat!

    best
    D

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  11. Rolf

    Rolf New Member

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    Looks good, but the obvious give-aways is the straight sheerline, the hull shape and the proportions of the superstructure.
  12. bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    You´re referring to my boat, right? Can´t be a comment on David´s Feadship.

    Well, concerning the sheerline, that´s absolutely authentic for that style and time. I can only remember two designers of these days tht didn´d build a straight sheerline for commuter style powerboat, one of them was Otto Lürssen who did some boats with a sheerlines that was falling down to the stern in a nice curve.
    Concerning the hull form: I admit that I could have dared a little more flare forward, but what else looks wrong to you?
    The proportions of the superstructure are absolutely correct from my point of view. Only the forward railing is obviously slightly too high. (I had to do that for legal resons because i want to do some charter work)