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total energy plan

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by TRY, Sep 23, 2004.

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  1. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the actual superyacht builders are certainly doing a great quality job in a very oldfashioned and technically outdated manner. Therefore it takes them too long to build and technical installations are used very inefficiently.
    Example: 2 huge diesel engines are installed to drive the yacht for..... 5-10% of the time? Perhaps even less.
    Waste of space and money.
    Apart from the overall production process which has room for enormous improvement, I feel that a total energy plan (just a "name") may be a more intelligent solution.
    How much energy is needed onboard, propulsion, airco, galley, laundry, etc.?
    At what frequency and intervals?
    How can we produce this energy efficiently? Diesels, jet-engines, anything else?
    How to allocate and distribute energy throughout the yacht so as to optimize production/power installed?

    Production proces engineering will be next thread.
  2. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    I agree with your observations. We may be in the midst of a pinnacle era with regards to power supply, i.e. the types of fuel used and how it is converted into energy. Ultimately, if one system could generate all of the power needs onboard a boat, it could save space and weight, while serving all of the energy and propulsions needs.

    One of the current technologies (actually it's quite old) is a diesel electric generator, that is supplying power to all sub-systems, including electric propulsion motors. These types of systems already exists in a number of applications, including trains, large freighters and cruise ships like the new QE2, which uses sub-surface pods with electric motors for propulsion.

    Over the next few years and with further refinement of Fuel Cell technology, along with increased manufacturing capacity, it is likely we will see yachts adapt Fuel Cell generators as back-up and hopefully... full time power supplies. Ultimately, as the technology becomes more accepted and more competitive with internal combustion prices per kilowatt, Fuel Cells may very well become the main source of power onboard a boat.

    It is a logical technology to adapt. It is clean, quiet and has no harmful emmissions. As a by-product, it's only emmissions are heat and drinkable water, which can be utilized for other systems onboard, or co-generated.

    The main reason we are not seeing an acceleration in the adaptation of Fuel Cells is the lack of a fuel delivery infrastructure, i.e. hydrogen refueling stations. There are many other fuels that can be utilized, but hydrogen makes sense. It is the most plentiful element on earth and more importantly for boats... the fuel supply is theoretically unlimited, as hydrogen can be extracted from water.

    There is as much research into hydrogen generation at this time, as there is in optimizing Fuel Cells. One of the more promising technologies is a solar dish that reflects and focuses sunlight onto a central collector, that becomes super-heated to the point that a cost effective hydrogen extration and generation is realized.

    I've been involved in Fuel Cell development for a number of years. I was originally introduced to the technology while working for the Department of the Navy on self-sustained propulsion systems. Several years ago, I began developing prototype Fuel Cells for the portable generation market.

    Here is an artist's rendering of one our first 2kw generators...

    Attached Files:

  3. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    This is one of our first prototypes...
  4. CaptPKilbride

    CaptPKilbride Senior Member

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    Cruise ships and submarines already use diesel electric technology, I can see it trickling down into yachts, albeit slowly.

    I found this link very interesting,

    Electric Motors

    http://www.solomontechnologies.com/Solomon new/electric wheel.html

    The water taxi in Ft. lauderdale has gone to a hybrid diesel electric setup that has a generator to run a/c, and provide power to an electric propulsor.

    Ft. Lauderdale Water taxi

    And I really like this boat in California, electric driven, and uses fuel cells for power production. not to mention it is a very handsome day cruise boat!!

    Duffy Herreshoff Electric Launch
  5. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Launchette 32ยด

    Hi Guys,

    Me again, proposing my designs ;)
    When I saw the electric boat above, I have to show my contribution to the hybrid boats. Intended for electric propulsion over fuel cells, sun cells and batteries.
    Especially for lakes and inland waterways, but also along the coast on a clear day.. :)

    Attached Files:

  6. JHA

    JHA Senior Member

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    Gas tubines

    I think a couple of gas turbines powering generators would be an interesting approach to gaining fuel efficiency. I have a friend that wants to see a nuclear powered mega-yacht. Only refuel once every twenty years or so... of course finding the fuel could be an issue.
  7. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    who could supply the kit?

    A number of very small gas turbines, driving generators, OK.
    Say we need a total of 1500HP on board my imaginary boat (30M powercat) I would think of 4 or better even 5 units.
    Problems with gas turbines being the noise and the very high exhoust temperatures.
    Advantages would be small volumes, low maintenance.

    As an alternative I found a Houston-Texas company who have a working system, www.feys.org but then the problem of spares and maintenance will be a serious setback in the conservative yachting world.

    My initial headache remains: 2 big diesels to drive 2 props for 5-10% of the lifetime of any yacht (and that's for the active ones) is madness!
  8. brianwill

    brianwill New Member

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    Fast Electric Yacht Systems hasn't updated their website in about 2 years (based on the outdated news articles). It seems that some form of electric propulsion is going to be a must with oil hitting $52 per barrel today. The newer, high-speed (rpm) diesels are probably also going to have reliability issues that the old 1300 rpm engines didn't. I heard a rumor that a company was testing using water makers to provide pure water to fuel cells and then batteries for electric propulsion. Essentially unlimited hydrogen "fuel" as long as the hull is in the water and the watermaker is working.

    Neat ideas on the horizon--we'll need them if diesel hits $3.00 per gallon.
  9. trouty

    trouty New Member

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    Energy from the time domain will likely be the answer.

    YES,

    Now that we are past "peak oil" (google search the term), prices of oil can ONLY go UP...

    Alternative energy sources are all well n good, but hydrogen cell technology is according to my sources at least 50 years away from being energy efficient.
    (Bearden, www.cheniere.org), since it takes MORE energy to separate the hydrogen from water than we gain from utilising it as an energy source at this point in time.

    No - I'm afraid that M = Δ T (Mass Equals Change in Time) will be the key to "free" enegy from the ether of space (time domain).

    Beardens MEGS (Motionless Electromagnetic Generators) as detailed in his patents and shown on his website (Cheriere.org) WILL be the vessel propulsion system of the future, (probably with my plasmoidal induction propulsion system).

    You can then all thank:-

    Einstein for E = MC^2

    Bearden for E = Δ TC^2

    and ol trouty for resolving these two theorems to reveal M = Δ T

    i.e.

    If

    E = MC^2

    & also

    E = ΔTC ^2

    Then it necessarilly follows that:-

    MC^2 = Δ TC^2

    By dividing both sides of this equation by C^2, one is left with:-

    M = Δ T

    troutys Grand Unification Theorem (or GUT....not to be confused with my fat gut!), M = Δ T

    Yes, Mass does equal change in time!!!!! (and you heard it hear first!).

    So there you have it - the new vessel energy solution....

    Cheers, Happy sailing smooth seas and 'Time' to spare!
  10. trouty

    trouty New Member

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    Hmmmm HTML doest render delta?

    INTERESTING... it seems Carl's website HTML settings don't allow it to render Δ as a small triangle suggesting "change" or "change in" with reference to the equations above. Sorry for any confusion that may cause - Carl, Maybe you need to review your HTML scripts settings to allow scientific nomenclature scripts rendring in HTML.

    Just a suggestion, pretty hard to discuss energy / propulsion etc without the right scripting. Most web formums I've seen/used render Δ as a small triangle symbol.

    Anyway - for those trying to follow the above post just substitute a small triangle (representing 'change in') for every occurrence of Δ

    Cheers!
  11. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Hi Trouty!

    Allowing HTML in posts has some serious consequences. It can wreak havoc on the code we've written and... the code currently under construction.

    There's a WHOLE lot more going on behind the forums that's critical. Sorry. :(
  12. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    small gas turbines

    I found a lead on yachtboutique.com the Bugatti yacht site.
    They seem to have a range of turbine gensets.
    Advantage: size - weigth - low maintenance.
    A number of these units - install where you want, in cocoons, with underwater exhausts - switch on whenever you need power - drive any equipment on board from there: main engines - electrical installations - hydraulics - etc.
    :) :)
  13. TigerTek

    TigerTek New Member

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    G'day Trouty,
    nice to see a fellow West Australian. Would love to meet up...I'm curious about 'free energy'. Want to design a li'l backpack sized scooter that runs on electricity and recharges itself and has an outlet to recharge cell phones and laptops etcetera via a universal adaptor...hehe for the busy environmentally friendly business minded university student i.e myself! :D

    Anyhow so if your theory is correct...then that means we build a time machine to speed up time to speed up the energy process? Or is it slow down...I don't know...I'm not too good with numbers and only did Year 11 physics...I loved it...just wasn't good with the calculator and figuring out how to solve the problem in the right order. Hehe.

    Ciao,

    Adam.