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Suddenly shutting off simultaneously both engines DDEC III 16v92

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by White Hatt, Dec 31, 2016.

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  1. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    Suddenly Shutting off both engines DDEC III 16V92
    Hello, I have a Hatt 65 1997 with DD 16V92 DDEC III. I was cruising at 1700 rpm and everything regarding the engines was ok (temp, pressure, volt, etc.). Suddenly the engines shut off at the same time, no power on both engines displays. I went to the engine room and everything was ok, then I turned off and then ON the master switch of each engine, wait a few minutes and the power came back to the engines DDEC displays. So I turned on the engines and started cruising again at iddle speed. After 5 minutes both engines shut off at the same time again. After that, I did the same thing....went to the engine room, check everything and turn OFF and ON both master switch, wait a few minutes and the power came back to the DDEC displays on the bridge. So I started the engines and continue cruising the boat. That happened 20 times or so, every 4 or 5 minutes, Even when I was docking the boat. Never came out an alarm or a code that gave me an idea what was happening. SOMETHING was cutting the power supply at both engines.The next day, I turn on the engines and leave them 2 hours on and nothing happen.Anyone has an idea what it's going on here? Hatteras has some sensor that cut the power supply to the engines? Or it is something regarding the DDEC?
    I spoke to a main service guy at Hatteras Yacht and he was suposed to email me some wiring drawings troubleshouting but I have not received anything yet.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I'm 99% sure it's your seafire or halon fire system shut down. Check the pressure on your fire bottle, if it is low, it will trigger the engine shutdowns. It could also just be the brain box going bad, run the boat with the little switch on bypass. That is my bet, the other 1% it could be is something with the engine controls, early Sturdy units, but doubtful.
  3. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    Yep, Skippy J is on it. There may be a bypass or override switch somewhere to set to keep running. This will offer no fire/shut-down protection in this mode.

    Our shop was just working on a carver where the box failed in similar strange conditions.

    This would be the only thing shutting down both engines (Gen-Set maybe also)..

    PM either one of us if you need more details.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The fire bottle will still discharge if the temperature is hot enough to melt the discharge. The engines just won't shut down.
  5. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    But the rare thing was that the fire system has a reset buttom... so if that was the case the engines will not turn on till I would reset the system.... so how I was able to turn on the engines without reseting the system?. The generator was on and never shut it off while that hapened.
  6. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    IMG_0682.JPG
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Because the relay box or brain for the fire system is bad. Shutting off the ignitions and turning them back on resets it. It's most likely is the lower box mounted engine shut downs in the picture, there is most likely a relay in there that's bad. That is why the generator isn't shutting down, it has a seperate shutdown box (top/right). Hire someone who is competent in fixing the problem.
  8. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    Does the DDEC keep error codes?
  9. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    Happy new year to everybody!
    But if that was the case (relay box or brain for the fire system is bad), how come that the pressure on my fire bottle is ok? I guess that if the relay stut off the engines, also will shut the Halon system. IMG_0683.JPG
  10. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    No error on DDEC displays, neither any alarm on my systems monitor panel.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Because the relay is BAD. It has nothing to do with your fire bottle discharges, it reacts after the bottle starts discharging and shuts the engines down, just as if you switched the keys off.
  12. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    But if the relay reacts after the bottle stars discharching and shuts the engines down, why the bottle didn't discharged? That's why I posted the picture of the gage that show the bottle's pressure full. If the relay reacts that means it will start to discharge the bottle and also shuts the engines down, just as you mentioned. Here in my boat, never started to discharge the bottle when both engines shut down.... that's the rare thing.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    No, it's more common for a cheap electrical relay to just wear out and falsely close than for a justifiable reason (fire bottle discharge). The Relay or pressure operated switch is old and BAD/DEFECTIVE, so it is shutting the engines off for no reason at all....not because it is doing the job it's supposed to do. You need a NEW RELAY or pressure operated switch. Open that and the generator box, if they use the same brand/type of relay swap them and see if the shutdown issue moves over to the generator. I'd just replace it and keep a spare, the relays are probably cheap.

    In your era of DDEC it was very common for the relay to do nothing more than send a shutdown feed/code to the DDEC computer, just as if you turned the key switch off.

    An owner I worked recently flew me from Fort Lauderdale to Jacksonville and back the same day and paid me above and beyond what I charged him for this very same problem. The local CAT dealer had been out 3x and couldn't figure out the problem. I found it and fixed it in 2 hours with their help of having the laptop plugged in. It took me most of that time to find the Halon shutdown box.
  14. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    Wow that's a very good idea, swap the relay or the pressure switch and hope that the shutdown issue moves to te generators.
    Do you think there is another thing that I should check? Ground? DDEC interface module? .. I am asking this because that day when the engines shut down, I was scared that the same thing would happen entering in a reef area or entering in an inlet river/canal since this issue happen in a random way.
    Thanks for your valuable response.
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    NO. Each engine has it's own DDEC boxes, battery banks etc. They're alienated. The ONLY things both motors share electrically are the controls (shift throttle) and the fire shut downs that I can think of.
  16. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    Also the Engine Room Interface Module is a common supply for both engines..
    IMG-20170102-WA0020.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2017
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, those are the engine controls. I think, if that fails both engines go to neutral and not shut down. You would need to call Sturdy to find out, they were the manufacturers. Check the battery bank those are powered by.
  18. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    Ok thanks a lot!! I appreciate your help!
  19. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Member

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    I have similar DDEC controls but not the series III. I would check the Fire suppression system first as suggested by Capt J. If that checks out fine the next thing I would look at would be your DC power supply system to the DDEC. Most of these boats came with a DC converter to supply the 12v power to the DDEC. How is yours fed the necessary DC power? Series III may have changed to 24v I'm not sure.
    On my boat I have 24v starting system but the DDEC uses 12v so it originally came with Vaneer (sp?) converters that supplied 12v to the DDEC system from an AC source. Prior to me owning there must have been a problem with the Vaneers as someone pulled a 12v leg from one of the starting batteries that are in series for 24v. This caused a big uneven load on the batteries and gave me fits until I figured out what was going on. I didn't like the original set-up with the Vaneers so I installed 2(ea) dedicated 12v batteries (1 for P and one for S) and found 24v to 12v battery to battery chargers. So now my DDEC is fed from the on-engine alternators when running or from battery chargers that maintain the starting batteries. Has worked well since I installed 4 years ago.
    As a side note, Capt J is correct, if the ERIM fails the controls default to neutral and idle.
  20. White Hatt

    White Hatt New Member

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    Yes my boat has converters but I thought that they were for the electronics equipment on the flybridge.
    Now that you mentioned, I am not sure if my DDEC are fed from 12 v or 24v. I thought that they were 24 v.
    I am going to check it and keep you posted. The bad thing is this is happening randomly... so it is not easy to find what's going on.
    Thanks for your valuable opinion as the one from captain J.

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