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Slow Trawlers vs Fast trawler

Discussion in 'General Trawler Discussion' started by Fish Catcher Jim, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Even if it's 40 miles there's an advantage sometimes in making it in 2 hours vs. 6 or 7. There are some places where the scenery is worth the extra hours. But some places you see the same in 2 hours you do in 6. We just went from Washington to California. Between ports it all looked pretty much the same for miles on miles. By going at a faster speed we got more time to spend meeting the people, exploring the towns. Your example you used of South Florida. We're not saying skip Fort Lauderdale, but get from Miami to Fort Lauderdale in less time.

    I know it's not for everyone, but we enjoy moving faster on the water. The breeze in our hair and faces. The sensation and feeling of boating. We love going 40 knots when around home. When built, the boat we use for the loop will have a top speed of 32-33 and cruise at 23-25. Now at cruise it will use 2 gpnm (0.5 nmpg). At an economic cruise of 11 knots it will get just over 1 nmpg.

    Our first loop will take at least 2 years. But we still like the added speed. We'll use it to see areas most loopers don't.

    Sometimes it's where you're coming from too. On the lake we were use to 50-55 knots. We've slowed down from that. Sailors are use to 3-5 knots so 7 is speeding up. And Capt J is use to SF and doubt anything else will ever rival them in his mind. But that's what he loves and that's fine. To each their own.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You're missing my point. I would say that 90% of the loopers (or more) do the entire loop in 1 year. They don't winterize it somewhere in between like you guys are doing. Given that, the soonest you can get through the Erie is May and you have to be south of Chicago by October and even then the weather is not nice. That being said. At 7 knots you're spending most of your time transiting, and not enough time in each port to enjoy yourself. If you cruise 20 knots, even if it's for your 20-40NM (let's say in Lake Erie for example, which there is nothing to see IN the lake). You could leave the dock by 8am and be in your next port by 10am or 12pm and have the rest of the day to see the stop, maybe even stay another day or two. The speed allows you to maximize your time on land, or exploring nooks and crannies, or making a lot more stops along the way. Otherwise, you're missing out on some stops. You can always go slow in any boat to conserve fuel. But you can't go faster than the cruise speed will allow. There are also some legs on the way down from Chicago, where your marina's are very few and far between and if you need a marina for fuel or need a marina to dock, as there are very limited places on the Tenn-tomm to anchor no depths on the charts outside of the channel, you're stuck. In one stretch just North of Mobile, it's 120 miles from marina to marina and there is only 1 place you can anchor and be out of the way of the tugs and barges. You can ALWAYS go slow and take in the sights when there is something to see.

    I did the entire Great Loop in 2008 in a 75' Hatteras MY. I would say 85-90% of the time I ran 10.3 knots hull speed. But there sure were about 10 different instances that it was very good to have it's 18 knot cruise speed when we did have to get to a spot we could anchor before dark, or a marina we could fit into. I did the 5300NM with 7500 gallons of fuel and we anchored 3 out of 4 nights and ran a genny 24/7.

    Olderboater- I do like Motoryachts also and actually recommended a 43/44' Lagoon to the OP. But I like the ride and seakeeping of a SF over a motoryacht. Visibility of the entire boat from the FB (bow/sides/and stern) as well as the low cockpit make locking through so much easier. A lot of the aft visibility on a lot of motoryachts completely sucks. Also on a SF with no outriggers, the captain can even hold the sternline from the flybridge. It makes it easy. Also the SF have a better hull speed than motoryachts and are more stable at hull speed because they are designed to troll. Also most SF are going to have a lot more range than MY's size for size. So there are a lot of advantages to a couple choosing a 40-50' SF for the loop.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Exactly. Different strokes for different folks. At the AGLCA spring rendezvous there was everything from our Hatt to a Kady Krogen to an old Carver to sailboats and a runabout that gets trailered. I even heard about one guy planning to do it in a Kayak and another on a waverunner. But MOST are in no real hurry. The main concerns with most are air draft, bottom draft and economy. Nobody seems real concerned with speed except for a day here or there. Now running down the Pacific coast, between the seas and the distance between safe harbors, it's an entirely different story; same as when I transport on the east coast or do lunch runs. On the west coast quite frankly I think I'd rather take my Harley than a boat (at least until I got north of Oregon).
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What you are failing to realize, is you have 5 MONTHS, maybe less, to make it from Troy,NY to south of Chicago, there are a lot of miles there, and without speed, you're spending 50% or more of that time running the boat. In a 7 knot boat, you're talking about 200 hours of running time or 300 hours with the locks and other hangups. That doesn't leave enough time to see ALL of the cities you should see and other waterways.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Our wintering is mostly due to our wives having major operations earlier in the summer, and our desire to only be aboard about 10 days a month. If we were staying aboard F/T like most, making Chicago would have been no problem. However we'd planned to lay up over this winter to have blisters taken care of anyway. So Michigan works as well as down south. Plus after over a year and 3,000 nm it's time for a break. 10 instances of being glad to have 18 kts out of 5300 nm is a lot to pay for a very little convenience. Again though, different strokes for different folks. The key here is for the OP to make the choice based on HIS desires.
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I burned 1.2 gallons per NM at 10 knots. If I ran the boat 8.5 knots I would get 1 NMPG. That's pretty **** good for a 75' MY. I average 1.5 GPNM the entre trip. A 75' trawler or expedition yacht isn't going to get hardly any better milage at it's 10 knot cruising speed, if any. A 40' Cabo Flybridge with zues will post the exact same fuel consumption as a 42' Grand Banks at 7.2 knots.......Even if you average the 1hr a day you run at cruise to keep everything clean, the difference is pennies on the dollar. Also, those 10 times we HAD to run at cruise was worth it's wait in gold, for safety and could be the reason I'm still standing here and the boat is in 1 piece with no damage.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Again it comes down to 'So what'. We don't have 5 months to get from Troy to Chicago. We have a lifetime. It's not about getting anywhere. It's about the trip; the adventure. Most of the people doing the Loop are older and retired. The Loop could be done in about 3 months, but why? We're not rushing back to jobs. This will be a once in a lifetime experience, not a 20 cities in 20 days bus tour.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You're not, but 90% of the other people doing the loop are. They have other obligations, families, houses, businesses, and other commitments, finances, for some it's even health. Most other people have 1 year to do the loop and that's it. Even if someone is retired, they still have obligations.

    Why are you comparing a Fast Trawler versus Slow Trawler thread to your personal situation anyways??? The OP wants the ability to both go slow and fast as well as to fish sometimes as well as an open deck, be able to do it in a year, and here you are stepping all over his thread and toes with your situation which is clearly not HIS situation. You're telling a guy who states he wants a boat that will do 17-24 knots, to get a trawler that maxes out at 7.5 knots, when you state that even you cannot do less than 10 knots.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  9. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    WOW !!!
    First of all I want to thank everyone for every single post that has been posted in this thread. I value them highly and I will respond to each of them as well.

    Now over the course of 6 months or so I have been registered in at least 8 other forums on some kind of boating or another and I must say that NOT one of them has furnished the knowledge and wisdom that I have already seen in here over a few weeks. Most of them I dont even remember the urls. lol

    So again thank you very much to each of you and the respect and patience that all of you have shown me is highly appriciated and I truly can sit back and say I value this forum and members very much !As for me, well this is the only forum I need !!
    Thank You Again
    Jim
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Jim, what I'd recommend is chartering. First come up with Olderboaters list of what you must have on board, and what you really want and need. Then charter the type of boat you may be interested in for a week and do a trip on it. Then from there, you'll say you know.....I really need a covered aft deck with a galley up......or you know I really hate this or that......etc etc.....It's a lot cheaper than making the mistake of buying a boat to then realize you hate it.

    If I got a motoryacht to do the loop it would have to have a cockpit. Trying to get lines from an aft deck with a roof overhead and fenders out and from docking is too troublesome. Offshore is worth checking out as well, many people love them. Some of the older Hatteras', etc.
  11. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    It's funny how things work some times. Here I am ready to pull my hair out and then get to the point to where I just delete most of the boat info and pictures I have and simply decide to start over and go at it in another direction. Mean while you guys seem to be busy here and going back and forth with my concerns and desires or wants and needs.

    Then yea olderboater, you hit the nail right on the head. I was all over the place and you just confermed for me what I needed to do. You made very good points and I was guilty as charged.

    The idea about chartering a boat for a week is a good one and once I get a little closer to finding one that meets my needs I shall do that. I mean I do not want galley and such all down such as on a DE.

    As far as looping goes, I may just be doing half the loop constantly. I mean there is so much to explore and see and do on the great lakes and tributaries and heading through the canals into NY and I also know there is so much beautiful sights and Fishing there. Then perhaps making way into the north east and exploring and such and as the seasons change migrate south for the winter. Florida has so many wonderful places to explore and Fish. Then as the seasons change just work our way back and do it again.

    The more thought I place in this, I believe this is more to what we desire and not so much all the river travel. No hurry to get anyplace unless there is a window to meet in order to anchor up for the night. No set time to leave any one place other then the changing season window of safer passage.

    The ability to cruise slow and enjoy and the ability to pick up and get there when I want or need. I do NOT want to be a slave to the boat or another words, I wont allow the boat to tell me how much power I can have at any given time such as top speed of 5 to 7 knts.

    I believe what had happened to me was I began to settle for things and that just will not ever do !! So thank you again for the wake up call and keep the post coming please. I enjoy reading everything you write.
    Have a great week end
    Jim
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Jim...we're only helpful when we have a good listener. You obviously were seeking advice and assistance as opposed to some who just want confirmation of what they've already decided. So you deserve credit.

    I've been where you are in trying to figure out what boat for this or that. It's difficult. Then you get advice and you have to sort through it and figure out what part fits with you. Different people cruising the same areas will do it very differently.

    The speed was a perfect example for you. There are many people who are content to loop or cross the Atlantic with a top speed of 7 or 8 knots. You have realized that is not right for you. You will go through each of the possibilities and then ultimately any boat is a compromise. But the key is you won't be compromising on those items critical to you. One item at a time it will become clearer. You'll charter and make it more so. You'll end up with two or three boats that seem to fit. Then it will be one item of comparison that pushes you to a specific boat or away from another one.
  13. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Wish I could find something that had the layout such as the new Nordic 42 tug (salon area) or even 2000 bayliner 47 pilothouse MY (Grand Eagle) or 2000 ocean alexander 450 clasico sedan (Nina Lei) they all have a salon area in the general desire and I have seen similar on some Albin trawlers and North Sea Cutters and Mainships as well.
    This post was requested from one on the couch. lol I thought I better post it
  14. SFS

    SFS Senior Member

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    Make sure that the one on the couch provides lots of input during your process, and gets a vote on the final decision. It will be critical to everyone's enjoyment of the boat you end up with.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    It's not just a boat. It's a home. Whether it's weekends, weeks, months or years, you're living on it. You're really buying two things in one. Something to carry you across the water and something to live on.
  16. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Oh I get the deck and flybridge and engine room and half the healm.
    LOL.....No truthfully we learned a long time ago that if one really likes something and the other does not, well the one who truly liked it just seems to not be able to enjoy it all that much. Its called Peace !!

    If all do not have peace about it then we have learned to stay away from it because it just turns into something that brings strife and we all know that where there is strife there is all sorts of unsettled attitudes and no one truly is enjoying life or relaxing and living in peace and harmony and being at this stage in my life.....well done that and there is just NO place in our lives for it now.

    On the other hand when you are working with someone who is very giving and loving and just a joy to be around it makes it much easier and it does not hurt at all when all are drawn towards the same likes and dislikes. It makes it so much more enjoyable and then you truly can call it home and not just where I live.
    Jim
  17. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Exactly olderboater,
    I think that is both the excitment and downfall to choosing a liveaboard because deep down inside you do not want to compromise on either the living space or style if you will and yet you dont want to give up your Boat side of things either.

    Sheesh perhaps a 45 to 60 foot house boat and tow a 20 foot fishing boat and call it good !! rotfl
    Any way thank you everyone for your patience and please keep sharing with me.
    Have a great week end !!
    Jim
  18. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Another factor in choosing this boat is our planned useage of it.
    For the most part it will be moored as home and will go out and do some fishing and will cruise up or down the coast.
    Now then fishing will be done on good weather days and no intentions of going out real far.

    Cruising the coast line will also be done in short runs in good weather as in no hurry to get there and just plan ahead and make mooring before dark and go exploring from there.

    I figure if I play it right I may end up with a boat to where I can stow a 16 to 18 whaler or carolina and keep deep cycles charged and quick release mounts for a salt water minkota and perhaps a 25 to 30 horse outboard as well and can always go explore and FiSh within this.

    You guys really are keeping me focused and keeping me moving forward as well. Thank You very much !!
    So what are the thoughts about this direction ? Any advice or do's and dont's.
    Jim
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    On today's AGLCA bulletin a fellow announced that he and a friend will be starting the Loop this week from Chicago in a 20' center console. So it really is whatever works for you. It should also be noted that in the bulletin members generally post when they cross their wake. Most posting over the past month or so originally set off in 2012, some before that. Yes the Loop can be completed in about 3 months, but the Great Loop is not a race. It's more than just completing a circle. It's all about the day by day experience.
  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    That's not an entirely bad idea. Perhaps something with just a little more seaworthiness than a houseboat and diesel for fuel economy. You can make a lot of time and explore a lot of nooks and crannies with a comfortable and fast tender/center console. Although towing it through the locks will be a little bit of a chore, even if you put it on the hip.
  21. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    In the size range of boat you're talking about, that size tender is not likely. Typically you're talking at the low end of your size range about an 11' tender and at the upper range you're moving to a 13' and up to 15' on a 55-60' trawler.