Researching Fairline, Azimut, Princess or Sea Ray Yachts

1. That should be a fairly safe assumption. My warning is that if you come under that in one year, make sure you save it so you can cover the years of major work.
2. Yes, they are. However, they are more strongly disliked in the US than in Europe and much of that is wiring and other factors that might be less of a problem there.
3. No, not a bad investment, if the boat and engines are surveyed and the condition is good.
4. I'll leave crossing the Med to some of our members who spend a lot of time in that area.

1) Actually you should consider 10% of the new boat price. As they get older it could far exceed that. One blown motor alone would cost you twice that, and it becomes more likely the older the boat.
2) I suggest you put each of those brands into the search feature here, especially Azimut. There's a lot been written.
3) Boats tend to get very little use. So if maintained, that's not a bad age at all.
4) I don't know the Med, but they handle the Atlantic coastal waters fine. We have one member here that I know of who's had a few Fairlines in the Med and I don't remember any complaints about handling. Forgot his name at the moment, but it's sure to come up when you SEARCH Fairline.

Good point in the interest of conservatism. Regardless it's a ballpark number. So much depends on the boat.

However, a note on the famous 10% number. It has typically been used to reflect all costs, including crew, fuel, docking. Without crew, that number would come down some.

A took that might be useful in making a conservative estimate of costs is

https://luxyachts.com/management/operatingcostcalculator

I think all European yards, will have average electrical systems, and I will have to put Sea Ray in the list as well.
The American superiority in electrical systems only shines in the production sportfish units in my experience.

As European boats go, I would add Sunseeker, Ferretti and if you want IPS pod drives Absolute in that list. That is if you want to stay mainstream.
Here in the med our concern with Azimut is more that if left a couple years in the water without protection treatment most of them do blister.
They run quite good, and have re-invented accommodation layouts in all size of boats to be honest. The Azimut 55 is in fact a classic and the first midships located full beam owners cabin of seventeen meter.
Azimut sold 500 (or close to), with a price stag which was just short of one million EURO.

Ten and fifteen year olds are okay, if the they are well kept. Ferretti's, Azimut and Fairline's from that age still look good may be even nicer then some of todays latest models.

For systems layout I would go in this order; Ferretti, Sunseeeker, Fairline, Princess, Azimut (think the last three are pretty close). For a sea-kindly hull I think Ferretti are a bit better to the other brands.

If you have a certain model in mind may be I can answer your questions a bit better.

If a new 60 footer costs 2.5 then with your 10% figure then one "blown motor" would be $500K. Is that realistic? I've had two rebuilds which were $80k each for a v16; most recreational yachts under 60 feet have 12's or less. I'm not sure the $250K per year is a accurate figure with no major overhaul for upkeep anyways; I've never spent close to that in 11 years on the nearly 30yo Sea Deuce even with a full engine rebuild.

Bamboo,

Thanks...I keep hearing that you should conservatively estimate 10% of a "NEW" yachts cost for the maintenance of a 14 year old yacht but what is included in that cost is still somewhat of a mystery to me. I understand that conservative estimates are great for forecasting but what is included in the numbers. Some here have crews to worry about...is that part of maintenance.

is $40,000.00 / year enough to operate a boat (no crew, only 7 months water time - heated storage the rest of the year) without taking into account the guaranteed blown engines and subsequent major repair that everyone says is coming. I get the unexpected cash outlay for rebuilds and will cover that from a different account. Will $40,000 cover Great Lakes operation of a 56 foot motor yacht for a year (60 - 70 hrs per year)
Fuel, insurance ,berthing, supplies, general maintenance (routine... filter and fluid changes, cleaning, engine check ups). My real hang up are the maintenance items. I know the cost of fuel and an assumed burn rate of 2.0 gpm, I know what my costs for marina space is as well as transient dockage costs. I've been given insurance quotes and they are all very close. Again, is $40,000.00 per year close to a number or should I go higher ???

Here's an annual estimate on a Hatteras 60.

Fuel and Oil $60k
Engine service and rebuild $40k
Generators service and rebuild $15k
Hydraulics $7k
Interior, Deck, Watermaker, Plumbing $10k
Paint $28k
Electronics $6k
Insurance $13k
Other $10k

That is without docking and without crew. $189k.

Probably on the high side, based on 400 hours per year use.

Older Boater,
Make sure I have this straight...

those costs are every year after year ??

Those are the average annual costs. So things like the engine maintenance assume rebuilds after several years, but spread the costs to each year. Same with painting. Those wouldn't be what everyone might encounter and if you do your own work, they decrease. You can figure on any of the maintenance items saving half of it if you're able to do it yourself.

We're in South Florida so bottom cleaning jumps up for us. One thing people do tend to overlook though is that every item on a boat will eventually require service. If a boat has thrusters, they will require service. If it has active stabilizers they will. Watermakers. Every head plus the plumbing and holding tanks. I used two generators in my estimate above and two 1135 hp Cats. Just replacing the batteries in a fully equipped boat is expensive.

There are people who own boats and never have to do an engine rebuild. If not, you can reduce the number dramatically. However, there are also those who never plan on a rebuild and when one is needed they park their boat a long time.

So lets look at it from my perspective

for the first 10-12 years say 75 hrs
Twin 660 hp cats
Fuel and Oil and other fluids $ 12 K
Engine service$ 8 K
one generator service $ 3 K
Hydraulics $ 4 k
Interior, Deck, Watermaker, Plumbing $ 8k
Paint $ 0 k
Electronics $3 k
Insurance $ 6 k
Other $ 6 k
Marina and winter storage $ 9 K
Transient dockage $3/foot for 40 nights $ 7 K

Oh hell never mind you talked me out of it. Thank you for the cost perspective that's what i've been looking for !!!

Not wanting to talk anyone out of it, but if those numbers are too high for you, then two options. First is more service yourself. Second is reducing the purchase price plus even a different, smaller and simpler boat.

If there's a specific boat, combination, you're thinking of then you might find someone there who is familiar with it and can help you with better budgeting. Also, relook at each category.

For instance, anchor instead of docking in transit. Doing so 30 of the 40 nights saves you $5K+. If you could do the service work you can probably save another $10k.

Still the worst that can happen is to purchase a boat one can't afford to use.

What? You rebuild the engines every year to the tune of $40K? You rebuild the genset every year for $15K? You spend $28K on paint every year?$6K every year on electronics? What's the "hydraulics" for $7K a year, and same for Interior/deck/watermaker/plumbing at $10K?

I don't think those figures or descriptions are accurate for every single year, much less any one year. My genset with outside professional and my own labor hasn't come close to $5K in 11 years. I've spent maybe $5000 on paint and wax in 11 years including painting stuff damaged stuff from other boats. A new autopilot installed was less than $6K and new mics for the Icoms in 11 years for electronics for me. Steering repairs (hydraulics) have totaled less than $3K in 11 years.
Now all of these figures are off the top of my head, but I see no way to spend what you are suggesting unless you buy a POS. How do you spend $40K a year on the engines?

I really have (for some reason) my eyeballs on a 56 foot Neptunus either Express or Flybridge.

The last thing that I want to do is own a floating condo attached to the dock.

My plan was to spend 40 to 50 k on yearly maintenance items with a boat maintenance "fund" of 100 to 125 K for those unexpected breakdowns. From your projections, the 40-50 k isn't enough... it should be closer to 60-70 k and that makes it too close for comfort. Thanks for the eye opener

I agree that some of those numbers are probably high. They were pulled from an estimator which does seem unrealistic on boats that small. However, they are not saying a rebuild every year though, just saying periodically.

Don't take my numbers as gospel. They may be too high. Get other responses. I was using an estimator for mine. I've looked at them and find them high as Bamboo pointed out. Find a better source of specific numbers.

OB Not gospel, but at least a starting point, now i can work from there.
Some of your number seemed high for my area but they are numbers none the less

Bamboo what are you floating??

I would really love some more input on actual annual costs for a 56 foot flybridge as far as operational and maintenance costs are concerned

Hey don't let me dissuade you that boats are not expensive, lol. Olderboater is speaking with experience that I respect. I'm a full time captain/engineer aboard a 20 meter sportfish; most things get fixed by me. Everything mechanical takes three things to keep it running- time, experience and money. Using your boat less than 80 hours a year should cut down on some expenses; however remember that many systems schedules maintenance are both by hours of operation and by year(s). The more time you spend learning and the more experience you acquire will cut down on the money and as a byproduct your enjoyment factor should increase as well.

My numbers posted though were not from actual experience. I'll blame it on the flood. I almost posted our actual numbers on a 44' boat but then realize how little help it would be as our communications is very high and maintenance exceptionally low for the first three years. Then almost all our dockage has been daytime in various places.

The first step really in projecting is just to make sure you're thinking of all the costs. We don't incur property taxes on boats in FL but many states do. Then it's thinking about your actual usage. On the other hand to dock 6 hours at some of the marinas in this area can run you $5 per foot as they cut off the daily rate at 4 hours.