Problem with Wine Fridges

are they liquid cooled condensors or air cooled??? how old are the units?????

do you know if its a capillary tube system or uses a expansion valve?


can you post any pics ? I know you come for advice but without knowing what type of equiptment you have and a general idea of the installation I would be guessing.

Here's some possibilities: ambiant air temperature is to hot and refrigerant is not condensing; system is over charged;system is undercharged;controls are set wrong.Plus about a dozen others.

I can tell you that since wine fridges have little "load" most of the heat in the locker is comming from something called "the heat of compression" this is from the compressors running countinusly. The answer to your problem if figuring out why they are.

Hi,

To help You, please provide follow info:

1. Is it a unit, where components are situated separately?
Cooling chamber in one place, compressor in another place, condensor (air cooled ?) in bow thruster room ? or not ?

2. Is there a receiver (collector) after condensor ?

3. Try on compressor: suction pipe has to be handwarm, delivery has to be hot.

4. Is it a system with TEV or capillar tube ?

5. Are there any manometers installed (or possibility to install) ?

6. Is it really R-12 ? Not R-22 ?

7. How old are compressors ? (Last overhaul, if any)

8. How big is a unit (cooling chamber in ltr) ?

Brgds,

Andrei

C/e

first clean and check freon heat exchanger(air ,sea water)
second check freon exp.valve, chek compressor running pressures
check air into system
put all freon into reciever than see how much you have in system
if are freon temp more than 40 degress it is not liquid
check what are conditions of freon filter and humidity absorber.

Ok , now I know your the ships engineer I can ask some pointed questions, First Is this a new installtion? if not can I assume it worked correctly in the past? Are all 3 coolers acting the same?

next We need at leat 6 temperatures readings to start. Using what ever type thermometer you have. accurate readings are important. so get a cup 80% crushed ice 20% water and make a ice bath. Your thermometer should read Oc . check it.

1: temperature of ambiant air where condensors are
2:temperature of air exhausted from condensor (you should take severial reading from edge to middle ,add togeather and average.)
3: temperature of liquid line, measured a few inches after it leaves the bottom of condensor.(clamp probe tightly to get correct reading.)
4: measure the temperature on top of the dome of compressor.
5: measure the suction line temp 6 to 12 inches from compressor under insulation.
6: measure temperature on the suction line as close to the EXIT of evaporator as you can get, probaby under or behind unit.

give me a rough estimate of distance between coolers and condensing unit.

If you have a manifold set (manometers) it would be great to have a high side and low side pressure reading so we can calculate sub-cooling and superheat. if not just get the temp readings for now. (The pressure readings may be necessary in the future)

Since I'm not there this will give me a thermodynamic picture of whats going on, the more complete the picture the easier the problem will be to solve.

Knowing the compressors FLA(full load amps) sometimes listed as RLA (running load amps) whould be helpful along with actual amp draw measurements of the compressors.

If all 3 units are acting similiar just take readings of 1 unit for now.

post as much info as you can gather here and I will analyze it.
Do you use MSN instant messanger?
A bunch of us guys super cool computer processors to -120c to overclock so I'm used to trouble shooting over the net. So getting a few wine bottle to +5c shouldn't be that hard I do own a hvac business also. Walt

one more thing if they worked before having r-12 means the compressors have mineral oil in as a lubericant. If some tried to add certian other gases like 134a and others it would turn the oil to a ball of purple snot and clog the system. so give as much detail as history as you can.

Hi again,

Now You have many questions to be answered...
All questions are correct. "We" will wait for Your info.

Just 3 short stories:

1. Once I was troubleshooting similar situation. It occured after "complete checking / overhauling", as they said.
Solution was: somebody mixed up fan's connections and condensor's fan was turning in wrong direction.
Just for fun, check the air flow direction.

2. Another case. Compressor's el. motor had 1 burned phase, but therm. overload did not trip.
As a result, turning speed was too low.

3. Recently I simply had to increase angle of blades of condensor's fan by "brutal" bending. But this action must be done very carefully and considered as "911"
It helped. I had no choice....

If there any fans in cooling chambers ?
Check that as well.

Brgds,

Andrei

While taking all the temperature readings would take some time,you never even answered questions that should be aparent to you. Like :Are these coolers or condensors a new install????? or have they ever worked correctly????

The only information you provided is they are running at 20 degrees and you want 5 .And the room where the condensors are is hot. and a few pictures on the other site.

The only thing I can say, while there is nothing in the picture for size reference, those condensors look way to large for wine fridges, I wonder what hp compresor is on the other side?

If the worked before, I can see you putting off this problem,since I'm sure "we" can get it to work again.

If someone just installed the condensors units or fridges you need to address this before you motor away and get stuck with a botched job.

Sorry "we" couldn't provide a easy answer.

The Laws of Thermodynamics say:

Zeroth Law: "You must play the game."
First Law: "You can't win."
Second Law: "You can't break even."
Third Law: "You can't quit the game."

Do you wanna Play Thermodynamics ???????? I forgot "you must"

just because one unit works in the heat of the locker means nothing, different gases condense at different vapor pressures & temperatures.If one unit is under charged you may not have the pressure to condense the gas. could be anything from bad or wrongly set valves unless its a cap tube system to worn compressors. can you post a few pics of the compressors so I can get a idea of type.. it may be just under or over charged.

all those temps are important to get a thermodynamic picture.

compressor top usually is around 70c. a cool compressor usually means one of a few things, no gas or very little to compress, no compression, or overcharged system returning to much refrigerant. the last is probably not the case since this would make the cooler very cold.

readings of the presures are going to be important. especially the low side or suction pressure. If your going to work on these you will need a manifold set and hoses.

inside the fridges there should be a finned evap and a small fan, can you confirm the fan inside the fridge is running.

As far as capillary tube vs valves its just different ways to meter the refrigerant.Capillary tube is thin copper tube usually.028 to .070 id by 5 to 12 feet long,usually wound in a coil. This meter by restriction with no moving parts.

Expansion valves come in severial types ,TEV thermal expansion valve, they work by maintaining a set superheat. or PEV pressure expansion valve, they work by maintaing a set pressure. There are many variations of each type.These work by openig and closing a orfice.

pictures would be a big help. get some of the individual parts but get some back far enough to get a overall look.

are all 3 set up the same?

I wait till I see some pics, have to figure out what 3rd line is

You probably used a infrared temperature gun with a laser pointer.

A infrared thermmometer is not great for temp measurment. fist they usually measure measure at a minimium 1 inch round diameter spot,if a 3/8 line runs thru it it also averges in the air around the spot. second the emisitivity settings,fixed thermometers are set for the color black or 95,variable are better if you get it set accuratly.Shinny objects especially bright copper and galvanised metal or alluminium are horribly inaccurate.dull are not as bad , the best thing to do is to place black tape on reflective surface or paint it black.

Do you have a manifold set to take pressure readings???

my first impression of the first unit is there is no compression this could be from no refrigerant in the system,or broken compressor(usually valves ) we will need high and low side pressure readings.

you did mention sight glasses were installed, can you see anything? look close a full sight glass looks like a empty one. but with no heat means no compression that equals no condensation so I bet empty.

I can't make heads or tails from those pics. This is going to be harder than I thought. figures it would be a simple loop.

But the large tube with the insulation is the suction,the one thats cold, thats your low side or blue hose on a refrigeration manifold.we need the suction pressure,there should be a connection on this insulated hose,may be right were it hooks to the compressor. what refrigerent does this unit have in it.

and we need a high side pressure.around the blue filter some where they should be a high side port on a uninsulated line. I didn't see any ports in the pictures but the fridge tech was probably hooked to them.

I,m not sure from those pics what that extra line is, it could be a defrost loop. fridges usually don't need them . could be a externally equilized tvx but the line looked big for that.