Click for Cross Click for Mulder Click for Mag Bay Click for YF Listing Service Click for Glendinning

Operational Steam Tugboat Question

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by SeaMarine1917, Dec 15, 2016.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. SeaMarine1917

    SeaMarine1917 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Green Bay, WISC
    Hello All,

    I'm a World War I US Navy living historian that portrays a chief petty officer. I'm hoping to clear up some questions and hopefully there are either USCG or experienced crewmen out there that may be able to know the answers to these questions I am about to ask.

    Myself and living history crew are hoping to obtain a period civilian tugboat from the World War I era or prior. The US Navy during World War I actually commissioned civilian steam tugs for use in naval ports and harbors, especially pulling coal barges. So far we've come across a 78 foot tugboat that is wooden hulled and contains a majority of it's early 20th century interior right down to the skeleton key used to open the door to the head. She was built around 1890 and was converted to diesel around 1922 from her original steam propulsion. Current motor in it is a pre-WWII Atlas Imperial diesel. Plan would be to convert the boat back to steam power. I have been able to find a period compound steam engine built in 1893. I've also been in contact with a company that would be interested in the manufacture of the new twin furnace Scotch marine boiler. Max operating pressure would be around 500 psi.

    Originally she had a forward mast in front of the pilothouse which is obvious with the off-centered stairs from the superstructure to the main deck. So hopes of adding the missing forward and stern masts would be one of the plans along with the rigging and canvas sails. Yes, early 20th century steam vessels still had sails particularly to get extra range due to the lack of ports that were able to supply coal used to fire the boilers. One famous US Navy steam tug that still had auxiliary sail power was the USS Conestoga which disappeared without a trace in 1921. The tugboat was rediscovered nearly 95 years later off the coast of San Francisco.

    One of the planned details added to the forecastle would be a replica of Maxim-Nordenfelt 37mm 'Pom-Pom' in 20mm and a blank fire only semi-automatic since the rate of fire of originals is slow enough to imitate in each individual pull of the trigger. A manufacturer has also been contacted about this project too since I know 8mm semi-auto Maxim or Vickers are being reproduced for reenactors to use at living history events.

    Plans would be to use this vessel under steam power for living history purposes of the crew I'm partly in charge of. I'd like to make sure that guidelines are followed with the USCG since it's a rather larger craft over 65 feet and plans would be to sail it to various sites, such as maritime museums and sea cadet summer camps, to teach part of the history of the US Navy during World War I all while dressed in period uniforms issued during that period between 1914 and 1919.

    With all this said my main question is if the crew of up to a maximum of 9 run this vessel would this require a captain's license especially since technically it's not being used as a charter craft and strictly for living history purposes. I haven't seen really any answers related to steam vessels especially ones converted back to steam from diesel.

    Hopefully somebody has some answers. Thank you in advance!
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,434
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    If it is not used for hire and is privately owned, could even be LLC owned, then you should not need a Captain's license. Insurance company most likely would require you to have a Captain's license and experience running vessels that size or for you to hire a Captain.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,726
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Time to contact other sites already presenting your same game plan. I would of hoped some of the knowledgeable in this venue would have popped in by now, it's the holidays so give your post some time.
    IMO, Moving the ship with in your company's personnel only and presenting the ship, tour and history dockside ONLY, May not be an USCG issue but just an insurance issue.
    Moving the ship with non company people on board will require a captain (and insurance). Assuming 6 or maybe 12 (new 12pax rules) passengers (you can not call them crew), An OUPV MAY apply.
    I seriously doubt you will gain a certificate of inspection allowing more than OUPV operation.
    Let your agent or attorney help determine if LLC, Chapter S or another INC entry would further help.
    I know of NO lawyers here.

    Good luck on your plan,
    rc
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  4. baltimore bob

    baltimore bob Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2013
    Messages:
    314
    Location:
    Baltimore, Maryland
    I'm thinking someone may need a stationary engineer's license for that boiler.
  5. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,392
    Location:
    My Office
    I do not know what the USCG Rules are for this type of operation but the propulsion plant in vessels are not stationary engines, the plant may not move itself in relation to its surroundings but it is in a vessel that does.
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    You can save a lot of time, headaches, and frustration by contacting the USCG directly with your questions.

    https://www.uscg.mil/d9/sectLakeMichigan/

    While it is quite possible or even probable that your planned operation will fall under the rules pertaining to recreational vessels, the State of Wisconsin or other states you might visit may have laws governing the type of operation you propose.

    For an example of what you might come up against, look at the State of New York rules imposed on what it calls "public vessel" operations.

    It sounds like someone in your organization has very deep pockets!
  7. wdrzal

    wdrzal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    413
    Location:
    Allegheny Mountains of Western Pa
    Other than the USCG every state has a "Department of boilers & pressure vessels" that may apply if tied up in that states waters and/or you plan to let the public tour the boat.
    '