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Mag Bay Yachts - center console

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by YachtForums, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    For the first time in 14 years, we've invited a center console builder to grace the pages of YF. Mag Bay Yachts was founded by the folks behind Cabo yachts. For those who appreciate the fit and finish that was legendary with Cabo, I think you'll find a comparable level of quality with Mag Bay.

    I was given a brief tour of the new Mag Bay 33 by Cabo VP Barrett Howarth at 2016 FLIBS. Barrett grew up at Cabo's yard and it's obvious he's not only a seasoned boat builder, but a globe-trotting tuna tamer. Although I'm not a fisherperson (never could get the little worm to stay on the hook at 60 mph), the boat was clearly conceived for serious sportfishing.

    MagBay has an unmistakable sheer line, combining a big bow flair with a tumblehome transom that looks like one of the Carolina's most popular exports. There's even a mahogany chopping block helm that pays homage to larger sportfish offerings.

    The center-console market is very competitive. It takes a lot to stand out in the crowd. I watch the CC market pretty carefully because I have grand dillusions of affording one someday. I haven't sea-trialed a Mag Bay, but if you're in the market I would put this boat on my short list...

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  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Although I personally had no interest in owning a Cabo, I hated to see their death and do hope Mag Bay is able to recapture some of the glory and not just in center consoles. I just felt Cabo was a victim of corporate priorities and not the lack of interest in the boat. Ironically, Mag Bay may have shown here a bit of an argument for elimination of Cabo as it was, that center consoles are taking over the small SF market. I don't know, but I think there is a space for both. Any word from Mag Bay on where they intend to go with the line, will it be center consoles or will there be some SF boats similar to what Cabo built?

    Also, does that mean other center consoles might get discussion here?
  3. MBY

    MBY Member

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    Thank you Carl for the introduction! Its an honor to be on the site!

    Olderboater, it was tough watching Cabo go the way it went. As for Mag Bay, we have drawings for a larger center console as well as drawings for a SF. Our priority right now is the development and construction of a new manufacturing facility but once that is complete we will start tooling a new model.
  4. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Best to let Barrett chime-in on that answer. He's a member of YF.

    I would enjoy CC discussions on YF, mostly because I prefer the opinions of captains and yacht owners who don't have the vested interest that I've seen on other forums.
  5. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    When you can't compete, buy your competition.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Understand buying them and then shutting them down was done under two different owners.
  7. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    So can we expect a modern version of the 51' Blackman "Hana Pau" in the near future? ;)
  8. MBY

    MBY Member

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    Boy that would be a fun boat to build!
  9. rcrapps

    rcrapps Senior Member

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    My point was buying them (When you can't compete, buy your competition.).
    Shutting them down (Cabo) was bound to happen under any (Hatteras) owner IMO.
  10. MedRascal

    MedRascal Senior Member

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    When CABO Yachts was bought by Hatteras back in 2006/7 (or so) under the Brunswick ownership, the idea behind it was good. As rcrapps correctly wrote, "When you can't compete, buy your competition" basically summarises very well what the original plan was. Hatteras didn't build boats under 50ft and it was faster/easier to just buy the leading company of their target size that was the most successful on the market, creating a complete range from 32ft to over 100ft.

    The overall idea was good and successful, until the CABO boats were being built by the same (original) people in Adelanto.

    Then in 2008 the world as we knew it changed (economically speaking) and the years after, difficult choices and changes had been necessary to keep everyone in business. Their choice back in 2010/11 to move production from Adelanto to New Bern was necessary to maximise efficiency in one shipyard (New Bern) instead of having two shipyards on the opposite parts of the country work at less then 1/3 of their capacity and constantly laying-off valuable people every week. Sure it was a huge risk to move the production together with the know-how of the people in Adelanto to New Bern, but it was a necessary step during hard times.

    Under the new Hatteras/Cabo ownership since mid-2013, what happened that brought the Cabo range to be put gently "asleep" is totally another story...
  11. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Brunswick bought Market Share when they acquired Cabo, it was not about absorbing a boat line competitor. They then could show "growth' to the shareholders and keep them occupied for awhile. Until they realized that their global manufacturing capacity was far and above what the global market could bear, something like 3 times as much. Couple that with the recession and you had the perfect storm for downsizing. They had no long term plan of keeping the Adelanto plant anyways and brought the Cabo brand to a workforce that had no desire to slide in a "foreign" (to NC anyways) brand.

    The acquisition of Cabo was not an overnight process and they had been approached years earlier to sell. It was well played by the Cabo owners over time and they got top dollar at peak market prices - good on them. Lots of industry lessons for the next gen leader of Mag Bay to lean on.
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Brunswick was built on acquisitions so the purchase of Cabo was consistent with how they always operated. The acquisition made a lot of sense.

    The move of Cabo to New Bern sounds good in theory. Companies are constantly centralizing and decentralizing. Brunswick has done of a lot of that. What often happens though is the efficiencies aren't realized and the reductions in management give one brand priority and the other the short end. In this combination, the negatives turned out greater than the positives.

    Then prior to the acquisition there was a long period of being on the market for Hatteras/Cabo. Those periods are often deadly as capital investment isn't made, management isn't strengthened, even some of the management most valued is moved to other subsidiaries and less valued is moved in. Money isn't spent on marketing. Then you go back and forth even on how you're going to sell the boats and dealer structure. The value of the company lowers throughout this period and I think it hit Cabo harder than Hatteras.

    Then the purchase by Versa. It's important to recognize the business Versa is in. It's not ultimately one about operating companies but more about acquisitions, buyouts, divestitures, restructuing, turnarounds, reorganizations and liquidations. It's about buying at a distressed price and then increasing the value but not investing more than they must to do so. They then get money out either through dividends, through recapitalizing and replacing some of their equity with debt, or selling.

    Rebuilding one brand requires a lot less money than rebuilding two. 50-100' boats make more money than 30-50'. They had the Cabo designs and can easily label any of them Hatteras if they want to. For divisions to close, brands to disappear, after acquisitions by venture capitalists is typical.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    This is untrue. The last year CABO was produced in Adelanto they were already making a profit again. They posted a $12-13 million NET profit. The Adelanto factory was VERY efficient. The New Bern factory not very. You can blame a little of it on learning curve, but not all of it. Needless to say, in Adelanto it took on average 7200 man hours to build a 40' Express start to finish. Best New Bern could do was over 11,000 man hours. Bottom line was Versa could never post a profit with Cabo's at New Bern.

    SOOOO, they scrap the Cabo line. The 44 express which sold for $1.2 million loaded becomes the 45' EX with a few easy changes and is now pushing $2 million loaded 2 years later and is now a profitable boat. Instead of fixing the efficiency issues, they got rid of Cabo. Meanwhile Viking is banging out boats in the Cabo size range like crazy.
  14. MedRascal

    MedRascal Senior Member

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    I won't ask you where your information of Cabo's profitability in the last year of production comes from, as its very different from the one I have, and each one of us has different sources. I am not doubting neither what you claim, as it may certainly be the case as well, knowing the people behind these decisions.

    We can certainly agree that Cabo stopped being Cabo when they started to be build in New Bern and the learning curve to build these boats efficiently was never successful, killing all kinds of profitability.

    The Cabo 44 was the first and only "Cabo" to be entirely planned and built in New Bern since hull #1, hence the learning curve there was different compared to the Adelanto models. And this made it the only profitable Cabo model they ever built in New Bern, hence why they kept it and upgraded it to the Hatteras 45EX. Sure the base price of the two boats was different, but don't forget to mention that the Hatteras version had also many options that were being charged on the 44HTX that got to be standard in the 45EX. Options such as the painted hull, the enclosed hard top, A/C in the helm deck, bow thruster, underwater lights, and many other items all got included in the new base price. Also the dealer margins were different between the Cabo and Hatteras. The Cabo 44HTX sold 27-28 units in 4 years of production. Hatteras 45Ex is to 23 sold in little over 2 years.

    Last but not least, YES, Viking is the big winner here, taking full advantage of the missing Cabo line and selling boats under 50ft like hot chocolate on Christmas Eve in New York under the snow... They are doing a wonderful job successfully selling also the models above 50ft too, especially those over 70ft, as Hatteras today builds the GT only up to 70ft max.
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The Adelanto Cabo made money on anything over 36'. 36' was profit at the sale, but a break even when figuring in the warranty expenses. If memory serves me right, the first Cabo boat to pop out of New Bern was a 40' express. But bottom line, the efficiency at New Bern was what killed all profitability, also quality dropped a teeny bit on them too. It wasn't learning curve, it was general plant in-efficiency. I spent a week there......everyone wanders everywhere all day for the dumbest of parts that should all be staged in each warehouse/shed already.

    Bottom line was a full loaded 44 Cabo with tower came in at $1.2mill. A fully loaded 45' EX comes in at almost $2 million. These aren't base prices, these are with all of the options you're mentioning. I've run several of each boat and they are both very nice boats.

    I am 100% certain that if Cabo stayed in Adelanto, it would still be producing over 120 boats a year and profitable.
  16. MBY

    MBY Member

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    You gentleman bring a lot of great points up about the how and why Cabo is no longer. Capt J I respect your contributions but also question your source of facts in terms of profitability numbers but that is not for me to discuss on the forums. Cabo's downfall didn't start with the move to New Bern, there were a lot of decisions made in Adelanto once Brunswick had full control that ultimately led to where they are today. Regardless of what happened, Cabo had a tremendous reputation and I for one would love to see a Cabo being built again. As for the claim if Cabo stayed in Adelanto they would still be producing boats, I couldn't agree with you more! Luckily for me, I employ the same crew that we started Cabo with and we hope to build Mag Bay just as we did with Cabo.
  17. PSW

    PSW Member

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    As a former owner of an Ocean Yacht that has just recently moved up to a Cabo I can't say enough good things about the brand and specifically the 40 FB. The quality and layout of the boat is fantastic. The 40 Cabo Fly is an absolute home run. I think the entire boating community would benefit from some how seeing the 40 molds brought back to Adelanto and going back into production. The market definitely has shifted over the past decade and center consoles have surely taken market share but there is still a nice segment in the 40 to 45 ft range. I have toured Viking and appreciate what they do. I am familiar with the 37 Billfish and have spent time on it. There isn't a boat on the market that can go toe to toe with the 40 Cabo FB. When my Ocean sold a few months back I set out to get the latest model Adelanto built 40 Cabo I could find. They over time will be like the current Land Rover Defender series and will develop and a loyal following.

    Glad to have you on YF Barrett and when you get a chance shoot me over that Sterling paint code so I can touch up my lazarette. :)
  18. MedRascal

    MedRascal Senior Member

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    I believe the first Cabo to be completed out of New Bern was a 36X with CAT ZF pods drive. Not 100% sure but I seem to recall so. The 40 started to be built in New Bern when it got redesigned to a 40HTX. The last 40X to be built in Adelanto was hull #140 in December 2010 and the boat got sold to Italy.

    As for the price gap of the Cabo 44HTX vs the Hatteras 45EX, I must disagree. The base price of the 44HTX in Jan 2014 (the last price list of Cabo) with twin CAT 715 was at $999,000. When the 45EX was launched in Oct 2014 was at $1,350,000 with the same engine plus approx. $200K in extra options now included as standard equipment. Furthermore the price structure was adjusted to match Hatteras pricing. So the overall difference is more close to $200K between the two boats, excluding larger engine upgrades, towers and electronics.

    Nonetheless, I too fully agree that if Cabo would have stayed in Adelanto, things would have turned out much better and they would still be taking the big portion of market share they deserved. Maybe one day...

    To get back on topic, I have tested the Mag Bay 33 at FLIBS2016 and was extremely happy to see many details (e.g. electrical wiring, hinges, etc) that were used to be found only on the glorious old Cabos, now also on the "little" MB33. I guess the best is yet to come from this new young shipyard that can boast a background with a tremendous experience that will be the envy of many. Stay tuned!
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  19. MBY

    MBY Member

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    I fished on a 40 fly in Cabo before the year closed; that boat is the best. I'll get that paint code to you shortly.

    I appreciate the compliments! We're constantly trying to build the best boat we can and we're very optimistic about whats to come in the future.

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