Click for Bering Click for Stats Click for DeAngelo Click for Llebroc Click for Burger

Ideal ocean crossing vessel

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Fish Catcher Jim, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    4 Now Michigan
    What choice would you make if you were going to simply go wherever you wanted to go.

    Would you pick steel or glass ?

    Under 50 feet or larger ?

    Fin stablizers or gyro type stablizers.

    Talking long range and power
    Looking forward to the replies
    Jim
  2. Ward

    Ward Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Vancouver BC
    If I had the money for it and wanted to take up long-range cruising, I'd pick pretty much any of Dashew's FPBs.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,560
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Going wherever I want, I'm happy with what we have, a Westport 130' with twin 2895 HP MTU's, 20 knot cruising speed or at 11 knots, range of 3,500 nm. Draft of 6'6".

    However, if I intended to circumnavigate and my emphasis was on crossing oceans regularly vs. it being the infrequent and occasional thing, then I'd select a 164' Westport. Twin 3860 HP MTU's. 20 knot cruising speed or at 10 knots, range of 5,000 nm. Also, draft is only 7'6".

    I'd probably consider both fin and gyro's on the 164'. We have fin on the 130'. The negative tradeoff of the 164, in addition to price would be less of a boat feel, more draft limitations, higher operating costs, and the requirement for a larger crew.

    If I was going all the way with a shadow boat and price in the hundreds of millions then it would be a Lurssen with quad MTU's coupled with jets, steel hull, aluminum superstructure, capable of cruising at least 20 knots. However, that's not something I would choose because to me it just loses the feel of a boat and becomes more like a cruise ship. I don't see that I'd enjoy taking the helm in such a vessel.

    If under 100', it would be a steel hull and I don't know what builder I would choose.
  4. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,370
    Location:
    Coral Gables/Ft. Laud., FL
    +1 Ward.

    Steve Dashew has been at this game for long enough to understand what works, and I agree with the choice of a metal (Al, in his case) boat. Am a big fan of Deere 6068s, esp. the Continuous Duty models. 17 ft. beam on the 64 is...OK...but I'd go in a slightly different direction.

    Unlike Olderboater, I'd trade off his 20 Kt. cruise speed for LSD [Ha! Long Slow Distance...what were you thinking?]

    OK, then: 70-ish ft. X 20-ish ft. in steel for the hull and Al for the superstructure. Why steel?
    FRP burns at 500F, Al at 1220F, with steel at--tah-dah!--2800F.
    FRP hull and deck are screwed and bonded together, while steel/Al are welded (Detaclad a la the USN). Welded deck-hull joints don't leak, and there is no core to worry about.

    This would not be a marina queen. We are going off to places where there might be hammers and acetylene, but perhaps not a dram of MEK.

    Steel has a greater yield strength--and much higher ultimate strength--than Al or FRP and so will bend, not shatter or rip--if one encountered a semi-submerged shipping container, or reef/rock not on your chart.
    Additionally, your steel hull would have fuel/freshwater/waste tankage built integrally into the hull, thus providing a double bottom over a good portion of the wetted surface. Oh, and a full keel with a 1" stainless steel shoe. Keel cooling covers a multitude of sins, minimizing through-hulls. Cleats and stanchions, and the like are welded to the deck and are there for keeps.

    Assuming fuel cap. ~4700 gal., twin 6081 Deeres Cont. Duty 225HP, about 8Kts should yield >4500 Nm.
    Sub-six-foot draft lightly loaded. You can still cross the bar heading into Cat Cay without polishing the wheels.

    Active stabs, of course, but this hull will have a very nice metacentric height (GM) of around five feet, a very stiff vessel.

    This configuration provides an improvement in interior volume as well, allowing you to carry All Your Stuff and yet still allow ease of maintenance.

    Could be easily handled by a husband & wife team. Much past 80 feet LOA, not so EZ.

    Downsides--I can hear the squawks already--OMG. Steel! Steel Rusts!!
    Pre-primed ASTM36 from the mill, additional inorganic zinc primers, fully-faired hull with epoxy/polyurethane top coats... you'd mistake it for a FRP boat. Yeah, when the finish gets dinged, a brush and a can of zinc primer is a necessity.
    The other downside is resale value, compared to, say, OB's Westship. That is Just The Nature Of Steel.

    My two pfennigs.
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,560
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Westport, not Westship.

    My wife said she would need LSD if locked for months into cruising on the Dashew you describe.

    But we fully understand that many would greatly prefer your choice. Interesting to hear a wide variation of ideas.
  6. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,117
    Location:
    Guernsey/Antigua
  7. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,370
    Location:
    Coral Gables/Ft. Laud., FL
    Yes, Westport...my apologies, the other no longer a viable entity.

    Your wife, unlike Steve's bride, likely did not come up through blow boats (Deerfoot, IIRC) and could not imagine the roomy bliss of their new FPB stinkpot, much less how she'd (Mrs. Steve) consider a one hundred and sixty-four foot WESTPORT as some sort of humongous NCL liner.
    Wide variation, indeed.
  8. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Kemah, TX
    Ideal ocean crossing vessel - 7XX at 30,000+ feet.
  9. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,200
    Location:
    Europe
    Yes, at 0.8 Mach or more and your 13o feet semi displacement or planning boat of whatever make crossing the ocean on the back of a yacht transport ship. And the crew would be meanwhile on leave.

    Loren, I like your taking over of the the running gag with the Pfennig. I did not think any foreigner would still remember this old German valuta.

    Pfennig.JPG

    Just my 2 (Euro) cents :).
  10. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,370
    Location:
    Coral Gables/Ft. Laud., FL
    It was either that or Centimes or Centavos...hadda flip a coin (twice) to decide.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016
  11. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Tel Aviv.
    "unlimited money" somewhy immediately gets me thinking SWATH. Screw the suboptimal internal space, build it bigger!
  12. Viceroy

    Viceroy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Semi-retired in Sidney, British Columbia
    Charter before you buy or build...could save you loads of money and your marriage. I would recommend, at minimum, 3 different vessels in 3 different areas, probably for a couple of weeks each...Caribbean, Pacific Northwest/Alaska and some South Pacific/Asian location. Just make sure there is at least 4 or 5 fully "at sea" days on one of the charters. A mega-yacht isn't necessary, just a good charter broker who understands your desires and budget to help you select many, available, practical vessels. Who knows, you might find others on this site who will share your plans and perhaps pipe up with similar ideas in this direction. Cheers, Richard.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,912
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The ideal boat honestly would be an ocean going sail boat. Safer than a motoryacht in regards to the fact it can roll over and self right itself, can use wind or fuel, etc.
  14. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,200
    Location:
    Europe
    I would agree with Capt J except may be for a catamaran. Some bad guys keep saying, the most stable position for a catamaran is upside down :). Just joking.

    But fun aside, IMHO a semi displacement or even a planning hull regardless of size and range, would not be my favorite method of transportation accross an ocean.
    A descent sized SWATH, yes of course but my number one choice besides a nice sailboat (for stability and redundant propulsion), would be a seaworthy, a very seaworthy, round bilge, full displacement hull with capable stabilisation. Either with high performance modern wing stabilizers or optimum sized gyro(s).

    The big question is not, will the boat survive the ocean crossing without damage. The big question is, how will the mortal ones on board take the crossing. Uncomfortable movements of a boat over a longer period of time will cause fatigue regardless of being seasick or not. As almost all larger yachts (except my be explorer yachts) ferry larger areas of open waters without the ownership or guest, they never really get to know what their crews have to suffer. Will say, some boats are better placed on a yacht transport ship than crossing an ocean on its own keel.

    Just my 2 (Euro) cents
  15. Chasm

    Chasm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    Germany
    This thread arrived much too fast at the right answer: "What do you prefer and want to do?"
    There the range is very large and if the goal is to go long distances with two people it's unlikely that a (in jest!) floating hotel with attached boardroom and a spa on top will be interesting.

    Maybe there are other ideas or needs from the beginning. Maybe there is the conclusion that going alone is a neat idea but does not work out (for both). Or requirements just evolve over time. So the answers have to change.


    For two, one of the smaller(!) Nordhaven, Dashew or similar. The 15m class should be plenty for two. I like the idea of go anywhere and unpainted alu. Why mess with a shiny outside you won't even see when there is just yourself to polish it? I'd have better ideas how to spend my time. Which leads to Alubat, Boreal and so on in sailboats. I also like the unstayed rigs, Cat ketch or Cat yawl. Because.
    Or maybe a nice multi hull? Catamaran makes all kinds of sense in the living room department but I saw a cool white cruiser/racer trimaran as child. Seemed huge and soooo sleek at the time. (Very few of them around, there go both practicality and the budget. *g*)


    Need/want crew, add a limited amount of guests? More of the same but bigger in size, within the 24m limit to keep rules simple. (No so much to circumvent rules, but to still being able to drive yourself without getting a commercial license.)


    On the YF sized boat scale. I really don't know.
    There is not really something I find interesting at this time. In the usual "If someone gave you the money" scenario I'd rather try for a split for something shiny from JF. :D
    That said the last ...interesting concept yachts like the high heel convinced me that I can do better. Maybe I should finally draw and sell that idea for [Dr. Evil] 1 million dollars! [/Dr. Evil]. Or better slightly more since I think the upcoming generation of offshore tris are the coolest stuff since SailRocket 2.

    $20m+ to burn? Emulate Dona but add foiling to the crazy french trimaran. Gitana just did 40kts boatspeed in 20kts wind with their modded MOD70, up next a bit more debugging an then finalizing their ~100ft design. Who needs to shower or a toilet as long as the record books sing their siren song? And it indeed looks like literally each and every sailing record is about to get improved. Real records too, none of that sailboat with a generator running at all times to turn the winches rubbish.
  16. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,117
    Location:
    Guernsey/Antigua
    Back in the 80's, we did a around-the-world trip in a bog-standard, run of the mill 65m motoryacht. No fancy Explorer big bows or silly stabiliser systems, just good engineering built to a good standard.

    Yes, we went through some pretty rough weather, but nothing major ever broke. One night off Samoa in a storm, the Owner didn't fancy the crispy duck and chose chicken soup instead, hardly a deal breaker.

    Most well built displacement yachts with a good range and a good crew will take you anywhere. Except in Ice, and who the heck wants that if not in a G & T?
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,330
    Location:
    My Office
    I would be very surprised if she did not have the building yards own Stabiliser system. This might not be "fancy" by todays standards but would have sure as *hit been better than nothing on that vessel.
  18. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,117
    Location:
    Guernsey/Antigua
    Sorry, I should say the system was borrowed from Blom & Voss
  19. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,330
    Location:
    My Office
    That is what my comment was indicating without revealing who built it.
  20. JWY

    JWY Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    931
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    The smallest "reasonable" yacht that I know to have circumnavigated was a 46 Nordhavn and there has been more than one to accomplish the goal. I have had more than a dozen clients, probably closer to 2 dozen, who have circumnavigated or gone to distant ports (i.e., from US to South Pacific) in yachts from 46' to 81.'

    While Dashew has been successful, not all cruisers are in his price range nor can live within the confines his designs offer. Comfort at sea includes not only stability, but the live-aboard home amenities and space.

    Do the research on steel and I think you will find the damage statistics from fire, groundings, collisions, allisions, and sinking rather compelling.

    Judy

Share This Page