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Cold Molded Boats

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by lwrandall, Aug 12, 2005.

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  1. lwrandall

    lwrandall senior member

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    I have noticed that some custom mid sized yachts, especially custom American Sport Fishing yachts are using the cold mold method of building (wood frame with fiberglass over frame). Also I have noticed that several Turkish yards using this method as well. What are the pros and cons of this construction method i.e. strength, longevity, maintenance and cost.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2005
  2. Garry Hartshorn

    Garry Hartshorn Senior Member

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    An excellent construction tecnique as long as the builder pays attention to detail. I would also suggest reading Wooden Boat magazine as they often have articals about cold moulding.
  3. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    I agree with Gary. Nothing wrong with Cold Molding, but it's a somewhat "old school" manufacturing method. It's great for one-off production, i.e., no molds, but its more labor intensive. Your not just building a wood boat OR a fiberglass boat... you're building both. Granted this allows more flexibility in design, but unless it's done right, there are caveats... such as water intrusion to areas that are not properly covered or sealed. Exposed areas may not come from the initial lay-up, but rather later in the form of swelling wood, which could crack the covering layer.

    Cold Molding will certainly produce a strong boat, with good sound and vibration dampening, but this can also add more weight compared to a composite build. From a production standpoint, the exterior fairing is tedious and time consuming. It's not an exacting science either... it's more of an art. Being wood based, you could consider the hull and structure to be more repairable than some materials and probably easier to fasten interior cabinetry, but with today's modern manufacturing methods and materials... this wouldn't be my first choice.

    I'm a big fan of wood boats, mostly as a spectator. We've had a couple of them through the years, but to quote an old family joke... "wood and water don't mix". ;)
  4. lwrandall

    lwrandall senior member

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    Carl,

    Thanks for your reply. For a one-off 70 foot yacht would you prefer Aluminum? I feel a custom mold for a fiberglass boat would be extremely costly. However, I have not found any builders who build in aluminum in this size. Unfortunately boo boos happen. I am concerned about repair. Since I don't live in Florida, are finding repair facilities who work on Aluminum outside of Florida difficult?
  5. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    I haven't looked around, but you would think there would be a few builders that would entertain the 70' range. This had been a size that Broward, Burger and Striker specialized in back in the 70's & 80's. It's hard to say if the first two would build these size boats again, as the amount of labor that goes into building a 70' yacht is not much less than an 80' or 90'... and these size boats are more cost justifiable to build in comparison.

    As for repair, certainly you would want to choose an experienced yard if available, but often the damage is not so severe that a good welder couldn't repair it. You should be able to find the materials and a proficient welder at any port. Ultimately, it's the finishing work afterwards that sets the experienced yards apart. In a grounding scenario, I wouldn't be as concerned about finishing, as long as the repair is structurally sound. Just slap a coat of bottom paint on it afterwards. If the damage is above the waterline... that's another story.

    For a one-off yacht in this size range, I think aluminum is the only material that makes fiscal sense. Molds are cost prohibitive for anything less than production purposes, although the owner of the new Adler chose this route. In the end, it cost him a LOT more to build the successor to his original Baglietto. One option might be to purchase a composite hull that meets your general requirements and finish it off to your specifications, but finding a production or semi-production builder that would offer this might be hard to come by. This concept proved popular for Westport a few years ago, as they were building hulls for Westship, Crescent and others.
  6. lwrandall

    lwrandall senior member

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    Carl,

    I did contact Burger last year with this idea and they kindly declined because they are in the process of designing and building there own 70' "Classic Cruiser". I have the plans for these and they are truely beautiful. They want to bring back the cruisers from "back in the day." If you get the chance to see these designs, look at them. I will research your two other suggestions. Broward is an interesting idea, especially with new ownership and their apparent desire to get back in the boating public eye.

    As usual your ideas and comments are greatly appreciated.
  7. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Yes, the Timeless Cruiser was an exciting project, but sadly it has been shelved. Here's the press release and an image...

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301

    I agree with you on Broward. At this stage, they might be receptive to the idea. Contact David Wiest at Broward and let him know we spoke. His digits are as follows...

    David Wiest
    dwiest@browardmarine.com
    954-925-8118
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Cold molded has many advantages over fiberglass when it comes to a sportfish. Cold molded boats raise more fish then fiberglass boats due to the resonance and the way the waves slap off of the hull. Cold molded boats are usually much faster then similar sized fiberglass sportfishes. Changes to the hull are easily done from one hull to the next, whereas once Viking, Hatteras or Bertram pops a mold that is the hull they are going to use for years. I worked on a 75' Jim Smith SF with a full tuna tower that cruised at 35+ knots at 1950rpms with 16v2000's. The new 68' hatteras with 16v2000's cruises at 31 knots with the same beam and 7 feet shorter. The new viking is the same. Aluminum is not the answer with a sportfish because the hull is very noisy and raises no fish. Also maintanence is high with regards to painting and so forth. Compare a comparable sized Jim SMith, or ACY, or Rybovich to a fiberglass boat with the same engine package. The speed, efficiency and range.
  9. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    i have a fiberglass ferretti 68 and a cold molded vicem 51. vicem is a turkish builder and is relying on the cheaper labor to build the cold molded epoxi covered hulls. the hull is a laminate of mahagony stripes of minimum 4 layers covered with epoxi. it is lighter than similar fiberglass boats and no doubt it is stronger.

    alongside the lobster boats, vicem also now producing sport fishers. you can visit their site and have more information.
  10. dogsharks

    dogsharks Guest

    I think there are some misconceptions about aluminum. Since there are many grades, it depends on the grade used, the dimension used, and the techniques. An aluminum yacht done right will last forever.

    Also.............one thing about the Jersey Sport Fishermen, they're things of immense beauty, and that shape would be really tough to get building out of metal. I'm sure it could be done, but much easier in wood and epoxy.

    regards, Dogsharks
  11. sailronin

    sailronin Senior Member

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    Cold molding is an excellent method for smaller yachts (up to around 100 feet). Look at some of the boats the Hodgson Bros build out of Maine.
    A good cold molded boat will be lighter than a glass boat in the same size, has a better "feel" at sea and very similar maintenance.
    See if you can find the "Wooden Boatbuilding" book by the G. brothers who invented WEST epoxy. It has good material and photos of some of the best sailing race boats built by that method.
    I've owned two small sailboats that were wood epoxy cold molded....great boats, multihulls from 32 to 45 feet LOA. They were light and stiff and very fast.

    Dave
  12. ktumer

    ktumer New Member

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    Cold Molded Yacht

    We are building cold molded yachts for 10 years specially as Gulets (traditional form very similar with schooner), and also will start to build 45 meters traditional sailing yacht. Personally, there is no any other materials that feels the boat like she is alive.
    For the technical point of view, specially with lamination of the planking as several layers, the first layer will be strip plank and other two, three or four (depends on the planking thickness) as diagonally and the last coat as longitudional with vacuum bagging method you can achive same durability under the all outside condition with FRP-GRP yachts and no risk of osmasis will be additional advantages.

    Kaya Tümer