Click for Perko Click for MotorCheck Click for Westport Click for Burger Click for Comfort

Battery Charger Question

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Sydian, Jul 17, 2010.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I agree and agree that it is very light for the kind of power needed. Every Azimut I've seen had several smaller batteries per bank group 27's I believe. The only 8D's I've seen azimut use them on are on 68' +. I would prefer to have 2 banks of 2 group 31's (1 bank for each motor) then 1 8D, if you can fit it in there.......

    Azimut has never been known for it's electrical prowess.
  2. feeldavibe

    feeldavibe New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Crews Inn, Trinidad
    Hey guys, sorry i haven't posted the diagram yet, i thought i had the manuals here at home but they are on the boat. I live about 45minutes from the marina haha so understandably i will have it sometime this weekend when i go to the boat again. Thats what happens when all the marinas on the island are located in one spot huh?
  3. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale FL
    Didn't you say you have to turn off the charger while under way?
  4. feeldavibe

    feeldavibe New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Crews Inn, Trinidad
    No, that is what sydian was being told you are supposed to do which is wrong. The reason i was saying the battery charger is off when running is because that was the only way we were getting the alternator to remain on and not alarm. This is not how it should be and the problem was fixed today when my dad found the setting in the battery charger and changed it. thus fixing the problem and allowing the battery charger and alternator to work in sync properly. So, i suppose if my engine were to fail the battery charger would continue to charger the battery as my gen would still be running. Both my CATS and my Kohler gen are very reliable and have never had any major problems with them.
  5. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale FL
    Ah yes, I lost track there.

    Maybe it would be better to add a battery selector switch so that you could just connect to the other battery if your alternator fails.

    You only have 1 8D start battery, so your CATs are 12v?
  6. feeldavibe

    feeldavibe New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Crews Inn, Trinidad
    yeah i believe so, 3126B electronic engines.
  7. Sydian

    Sydian New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Hampton, VA, USA
    I am told that the Azimut 42 I'm buy has 4 batteries; one for the starboard engine, one for the port engine and one for electronics. I can't remember what the 4th one is for. Also I recall one of them being called the "house" battery?? which may be the same as the electronics battery. But I do know I have a battery dedicated to starting each engine.

    I'm 3-3.5 hours away from the boat so I physically cannot go their and confirm. I just found out Friday around close of business, that the Bank wants to give me an additional $11K off the boat and I can take care of any repairs myself. I'm excited about that b/c it puts me in a position of choosing who will do what work. Let me know if you see any errors in my thought process.

    I'm going to contract out to a fuel polishing company the fuel algae issue and tank cleaning. The marina has to rent the equipment to do it and that tells me they do not do this often or they would already own the equipment. They also quoted 6 hours (@ $85/hr. plus a $250 charge for the equipment) to clean approximately 100 gallons of fuel and I think that is way too much. Thoughts? I saw a system I could purchase for $1500 that cleans 10 gallons a minute, so you should be able to do 100 gallons in 10 minutes!

    They still don't understand the battery charger issue even with the info I've given them from Feeldavibe. I also need the Salon AC looked at and the bilge pumps and the mechanic thinks the bilges are improperly wired even though I again gave them Feeldavibe's info on how the Azimut bilges work. I think I will take the boat to Baltimore to the Azimut dealer there and have them work on these three things.

    The port prop is bent so the props have been sent off for reconditioning. Cost is 2 hours of labor to take the props off and back on, then the reconditioning fee which should run b/t $300-$400.

    The AC raw water hose from the pump to the manifold needs to be replaced. They are quoting 4 hours for this b/c it is in a difficult place. Sound reasonable?

    The Auto Pilot is non-functional. It is stuck on hard starboard and it has been determined it is not a stuck rudder rod. It may be the Control Head. Ideas on what that should cost?
  8. feeldavibe

    feeldavibe New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Crews Inn, Trinidad
    Sydian, if i may ask, what year is the Azimut? What make and horespower engines does it have? What generator does it have? Also, just out of curiosity, what brand of autopilot is it? Also, if your mechanic cannot find the bilge floats, have him take a hose and start filling the bilge and see if the pumps don't automatically start? I don't see how the boat could have come wired wrong unless the previous owners did something to it and didn't connect it back properly? The float switched have GOT to be there somewhere or else the boat would sink in heavy rain :S

    What kind of battery charger does it have again? maybe i could check it out for you and see if it is infact the same issue as with my AZ
  9. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale FL
    They could be Rule "automatic" pumps with the built in float switch. And that is why you don't see an external switch.
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Again, I wouldn't bother polishing the fuel. Buy extra filters, put the Diesel kleen additive in there and run it as low as you can. Polishing only takes the algae down to 10 microns or less. The Algae is still there, not completely removed. It will grow back and quickly.

    I'm not familiar with the 42', but 4 hours seems like a lot of time to replace one raw water hose. However, it is entirely possible it could take that long in rare instances.
  11. Sydian

    Sydian New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Hampton, VA, USA
    2001, 3126 CATS, 390 HP, Kohler Generator. The previous owner just put a Charles 8000 80 Amp battery charger in it over the winter.

    It appears that the aft bilge has been replaced from the original as it is US made and different from the other two and clearly has a bad float. With respect to the mid cabin and engine room bilges, I think the surveyor nor the mechanic know how they work b/c I think they are "automatic" like you said. I think if I take this boat to the Azimut dealer they will know how the bilges are supposed to operate. I think this marina mechanic is probably an okay guy for US made boats, but his solution to the alternator alarm was to "just cut the wire to the alarm and that will fix it." They are convinced that it is there to warn you to shut off the battery charger while using the generator. Consequently, I really don't want them working on this Azimut much at all and am looking forward to closing the sale and getting it out of there.

    Thanks for your help, Feeldavibe!
  12. Sydian

    Sydian New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Hampton, VA, USA
    Thank you, Capt J. What would be our protocol after that? I worry about running the fuel down b/c the broker really did not want to take us on that second sea trial. They seem very concerned about running the fuel tanks lower than they are now. Could that be b/c there is a lot of sludge at the bottom that could get sucked into the Racors?
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    If a surveyor doesn't know how something works on a boat it is his obligation to learn it or give the job to a qualified surveyor. As for that mechanic with his: "just cut the wire to the alarm and that will fix it." :eek: I once brought in an E.T. to fix (among other jobs) the masthead & anchor lights being reversed. Behind the helm he was faced with a bundle of red wires. He suggested we start cutting until the light went out. Instead I suggested we just go up to the mast where there are only two sets of wires and reverse them. They really do walk among us.:eek: In your case it seems the old adage 'Birds of a feather flock together' is true and you're sitting right under their perch. We'll be interested to hear what happens in the new yard. Good luck.
  14. feeldavibe

    feeldavibe New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Crews Inn, Trinidad
    I would agree and also assure you that "cutting the wire to the alarm" is absolutely the worst thing to do! How a mechanic could even suggest that is beyond me. I will look into your battery charger, Sydian, and see if I don't find the same setting situation as it was with mine. Good luck and let us know how things are going!
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The fuel tank pickups always pickup fuel from the bottom of the tank, algae grows on the sides of the tank and in the fuel itself. When the fuel level is low, it sloshes around more and could knock more of it loose from the sides of the tank....Not enough more to be super worried about...However, the fuel level might just be so low they're afraid of running out. I would add the additive and run it down, bring extra filters and know how to change them (it's relatively easy), as well as a can of diesel to prime the fuel filters.......then topoff the tank with the additive and fuel.........run an additive from then on out.
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    If biocides have been used wouldn't that dead algae indeed be floating on or near the surface waiting to be sucked in when fuel levels are low? As they get low and hit that first clogged filter change they should see from the condition of the filter whether polishing is called for.
  17. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale FL
    I've never see it floating on top. Always sunk to the bottom.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    You could be right as I've never seen it inside a tank (in diesel), and it does collect in the bottom of the Racor bowl, but we just had an algae bloom in our waters a few weeks ago and it was indeed floating. In fact it was so thick that it looked almost as if someone had pumped out.
  19. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave

    The skeletal remains of their little mortal coils sink to the bottom as a gray sludge, like superfine talcum powder that when disturbed goes into suspension like a fog. It will clog filters but is almost invisible on the elements, it is seen as cloudy fuel.

    They can get you coming and going.
  20. ScrumpyVixen

    ScrumpyVixen Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Sydney
    The boat sounds like it has not been looked after (electrics, bent prop, auto pilot, dirty fuel, hoses etc). Fair bet the engines and such have not been regularly serviced. In the hands of the bank - not normally know as boat people.

    If you are good with boats then you can fix it up. If not....., it is going to cost you far more than you think to get it back in shape. If you don't spend the money to do so, likley there will be a constant niggle of problems that will your enjoyment of the boat. You really need to find good boat mechanics/electricians/chandlers.

    This may sound high, but you are not going to get any change out of $5,000 on the first fix up:
    service both engines & genset + parts
    Fix fuel issue
    Fix electrics
    Antifoul
    prop
    auto pilot
    There will be other issues (shaft alignment/corrosion/water/ etc)

    Don't mean to sound harsh, but get used to $200 to $300 to change a hose. Nothing costs less than $100, and most bills are in the thouands. Yes i know it sounds flippant, but that is the way it is with boats. Any marine part/work costs twice as much as a non marine part/work, and you normally need two of them.

    When was the last time any baot owner said, god that was cheap, it cost less than my corolla to run.

    Rule of thumb - major blowups aside, its costs about 10% of the boat cost a year to bearth, insure, run and maintain.

    I think it has been mentioned previously, but it may be less hastle spending a little more on a newer boat.

    Sorry, not an uplifting post, but boats can be frustrating money pits.