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Inquest into 22 year old yacht crew member Michael Hanlon death

Discussion in 'Yacht Crews' started by karo1776, May 26, 2015.

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  1. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Well the news is out there will be an inquest will hear allegations that 22 year old Michael Hanlon.

    The ALLEGATION is that he was over worked... having only gotten 4 hours sleep at some point between watches.

    However, he died after shore leave going out with the rest drinking as many do... then he apparently came back to the boat and stumbled into the water drowning !

    This is an old tale in my book. Too many crew members on yachts, ships in navies go out on shore leave and end up dead. When I served in the US Navy for a time I was assigned to the Naval Honor Guard. A few died in service we buried (during a war) and most that died while in service died in various accidents off duty... most involving alcohol.

    The allegations seem to indicate he would have been better off staying on the boat and turning in for some shut eye... rather than going out... if he was stumbly tired. When I was young (and even often now) there were many times of little or no sleep. At sea sleep was and will always be a precious commodity. But when you have off time you can sleep all you want. Make the wrong choice is your choice. Maybe I am as the kids working for me often call me 'a hard ass mean old man'. My response is "You signed on and can leave anytime you want... and I will pay your way back home!"
  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    As a human being and professional seafarer and most of all out of respect for the deceased and his family I would request that posters here refrain from a post mortem crucification till all facts ( those seemingly minor bits of information that appear during the course of an official enquiry) are in the public domain.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I have no knowledge of this individual's circumstances, so as K1W1 says I wouldn't dare try to judge what took place.

    Now, as to some of the things the "hard ass mean old man" said. Each branch of the military, every private or commercial boat, every business has a culture. We all have our role in establishing that culture and as boat owners or captains or engineers we have that role for our boat or boats. We especially have this responsibility to young people. Sleep deprivation and over consumption of alcohol are not healthy aspects of any culture but are quite common. When there's a death such as this then it's time for all of us to think of whether we have an environment where similar might happen. I personally feel a tremendous responsibility to our crew on or off the boat. I think about crew mates who went off with the young man. I don't know what happened in this case and am not placing the blame anywhere. What I am saying is that certain traditions aren't good and just because it's long been this way doesn't make it right. The US Navy shouldn't look the other way if they have large numbers using their leaves to go abuse alcohol, drugs, and high risk sexual activities. Private yacht owners shouldn't just say it's ok if their young crew is exhausted but then every time they have a couple of days spend that entire time in drunken stupor in whatever port they're in. There are certain chains of behavior that long ago it was time to break.

    I believe as an employer your responsibilities go far beyond just the legal obligations. All I know of the above is a young man lost his life. Shouldn't have happened. If I was involved I wouldn't be thinking so much how he screwed up as I would think, "What could I have done differently that might have prevented this."
  4. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    A death is a serious matter.

    To be fair the French Authorities will do a very complete and fair investigation... that is a fact. And, the obligation under French law is to find the complete and absolute truth. This will be supervised by an investigating judge that has control of the investigation and who is likewise reports to the Court and his review panel of judges.

    As a death was involved this will likely end up in a trial. And, knowing how these things go in France.... very likely the Captain of the boat, the managers of the yacht operating company, and the port authorities will have to answer in some way. In France pretty much guilt or innocence is not primarily determined at trial but the trial is provide public forum for mitigation and consensus for the public good. This will result in a much different outcome than in Britain or American justice systems. Why is simply because someone died that will be absolutely accounted for... but I would not expect jail times or large fines... though there may be convictions... the French look at it much different than the American system. But likely reputations will be tarnished... that is sad all the way around.

    The mean old man here having served in the French military and the American military at similar age to this young man... has the perspective that it is as much a personal administration problem for the individual as a management issue. One has to be responsible for one's self... owners, managers and authorities should not be held to a standard where every action by crew is their solely responsibility of the boss but the individual has to take some for himself. However, practically it because the responsibility of the employer, captain and port authority when something goes wrong. Therefore and this is where the hard mean assed old man comes into play, they, those of authority, have to impose standards of conduct on the individuals that have to be without exception fair and tough. Sometimes jobs are tough and any good one often is but everyone must have standards of conduct and discipline. Sometimes that includes deciding to go and turn in early and miss the party... sometimes that is the captain enforcing sense.
  5. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    This must be some sort of new ruling.
  6. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    K1W1... No same ole song as usual. But this incident involves a loss of life of a young man Michael Hanlon. Thereby the investigation will be as best as can be... and one has to accept that.

    The French have this thing about reputation and privacy. It is both actionable and illegal for the press to make speculations that impune reputations. So for example someone accused of the crime before they are convicted is not vilified in the press the same as in Britain or the USA. If the investigation turns up nothing criminal then little will be said as it is considered a private matter. I think this extends particularly to peoples affairs that have political or standing in French society involved.

    Actually, if you are remembering the yacht Yogi investigation may not be a good example... but maybe is. The Yogi thing had a very old lady from Neuilly that had both social political standing in French society (owns a large fashion empire) involved. See as the 'owner' of Yogi was accused of basically taking advantage of the old lady to gain the boat and other things. This was later cleared up and she was supposedly made whole. Also, they perhaps determined it was a private matter and thereby not proper for public release as to both the potential investment fraud, and perhaps the yacht sinking.

    What I questioned about the Yogi investigation was the rather light information on something that I think involved public safety. I think Proteksan-Turquoise got a short shift in the process too. The "Bureau d’Enquêtes sur les Évènements de Mer" I think did a disservice to the yachting community. I think the French crew's inexperience and incompetence of was purposefully overlooked due to Gallic hubris. Yogi was a new yacht that everyone thought was well designed and made... even won awards. The French official attitude was 'no one got killed so what!" But, there was collateral damage in the loss by suicide of Proteksan-Turquosie CEO Hayati Kamhi and that was a crying shame.
  7. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    I am not my best before breakfast... the pious post was perhaps a little murky... late afternoon reread invites some explanation as to investigations in France.

    In America (this forum primary membership) the process of investigation is more press driven and more open. In France there my be rumor but the workings of the legal system are mostly behind closed doors. If a death other than natural causes there is always an investigation. The police are only peripherally involved. The prosecutor is not involved until the investigation is complete and the court has determined charges shall be made.

    In America a prosecutor investigates with the legal intent to find the TRUTH, but afterwards in court the burden is to present the best theory of what happened which is not necessarily the truth but the best arrangement of the facts. The police work for the prosecutors office to help investigate and build a case. But the subtext is to if possible make a case for successful prosecution. If the investigation needs help deciding whether to bring charges often a grand jury is used to help the prosecutor decide the issue. If they believe they can successfully prosecute charges are made to a court and the court grants an arrest order... then the matter is publicly known.

    In France an inquiry is investigated under the direction of the court and the investigating magistrate (a judge assigned to the investigation). The court directs the investigation and the police only provide leg work at the investigators direction, and the investigator works for the Judge under his direction. The investigating magistrate is overseen by a review panel of judges. Court in France work similarly to courts in England or America... they do not have press agents and work largely in secret.

    The difference in the inquiry stage is who investigates a public prosecutor or a court.

    For Americans the French way seems very secretive and closed to the French the American way seems disrespectful and brash.

    Without going into the public trial phase... a long way off... but in general and this will help understand the investigative process.

    In America once charges are filed the accused is public fodder and perp walks and the like are the norm. Why is the standard of conviction is very high "beyond a reasonable doubt" because the investigation and charging is handled by a public prosecutor with many advantages and public image of law and order... and the accused is has the negatives of presumption of guilt in the press. So the tradition is to make it very hard to obtain a conviction this is where fundamental rights are involved of an individual to protect him from the powers of the state.

    In France that is not the case the standard is lower for conviction as the court itself investigated the matter and makes it mind up if a crime has been committed and who and how a person is charged. The standard is effectively then a presumption of guilt, although, the courts obligation is not to the accused rights protecting him but to the discovery of TRUTH for the society at large and the state. However, the rights of the individual exist but are superseded by the society at large to have truth served.

    Therefore, in France investigations in may ways more complete but less public... FYI
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    French courts, from what you describe, have thresholds of "truth", or burden of proof, more in line with civil courts than criminal courts in the US. That's where it's not beyond a reasonable doubt, but it's "a preponderance of the evidence". In the case we're discussing, this would involve both the criminal and civil systems in the US. Criminal would determine if charges were appropriate. Civil would determine who should be held responsible.

    I think tossing the word TRUTH out is somewhere between pious and naive although I don't believe you are either. It's like tossing the word JUSTICE in the US. Sometimes neither truth nor justice from a moral sense can be reached.

    As to the secrecy vs the openness and the press, I think both have their weaknesses. Now, to be fair, even with the press involvement in the US there is a tremendous amount of investigation done in secrecy. An event such as this one would largely be done so. But meanwhile the press and public would have their field day. I think secrecy can lead to a lot of information never being heard, considered, or even known. I think the noise of the press tramples on the rights of the innocent. Part of it is the public forum doesn't presume innocence.

    I would also say that there are French cases that because of the nature of those involved get tremendous press. A princess dies in an auto accident and regardless of how the french court system works, the press around the world goes wild.
  9. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    The use of the word TRUTH or finding of the FACTS is what the intension of the Courts is constitutionally in France. They are to find the truth as best as possible and apply it to the law. It does not mean it is achieved or political influences do not intercede. In France there is no precedent law only statutory law so court rulings at any level have no effect to determining what the law that is solely the authority of the legislative process and the enacted law. Laws must be written so that an person with a minimal education can read and understand the law in plain French... constitutionally. Before about 1990 that was a person with an 8th grade education after it is a 10th grade education. So the Courts try to find the truth of the matter and apply it to the written enacted law. This provides some variation in rulings as different jurisdictions often interrupt a similar set of facts under the law differently due to local custom variations and traditions. Particularly as the law is simply written so it is open to interruption by the Court for literally each case heard. English and American people living in France find this very upsetting as a result is not necessarily predictable.

    This in not the case in American justice system where the Courts are charged with applying justice under the law, not in a philosophical sense. In America the prosecutor is the one charged with finding and protecting the truth not the court... though his seems often to be forgotten due to political influences. In civil cases there is only the attorney's oaths as officers of the Court that protect truth... as you know they usually lie too! The Courts in American and England (the Commonwealth too) can make law by rulings forming precedents... i.e. the common law. This is not enacted law or statutory law but that made from a long line of rulings by Courts of Appeal and Supreme Courts. It is very very rare that a trial court can form a precedent in modern Anglo-Saxon or common law jursiprudence. This makes for more consistent outcomes but makes for very much less leeway in judgement to the circumstances. Only the Supreme Court of a State or the U.S. Supreme Court have jurisdiction for matters were the law conflicts, or there is a matter of attorney or judicial conduct. This greatly contrasts with France. However, as the results under a common law system can be very harsh for a particular case (where in a statutory system like France there is some leeway in interpretation case to case) as there is very little leeway in a common law system... that is called the harshness of the common law. In the early days there was no leeway for a killing it took time to develop the manslaughter to murder with remediation spectrum... you were responsible in some way you hung. This rose in early days in England that the King had the power (royal prerogative) to grant mercy... under that power the Courts of the Chancellory were created or Courts of Equity... these provided a means to handle cases that were on the face of it unjust (hanging for stealing a drink of water) or matters of financial nature asking for relieve of the burden of a contract, specific performance or matters of general mercy... habeas corpus is an equitable application of law. In England and America these Courts of Equity have starting in the early 20th century been combined with the civil courts... before 1938 the USA had Courts of Equity for those types of cases... in that year the US Supreme Court changed the rules.

    Those are the fundamental differences between France and the Anglo justice systems. I will not even try to explain the Italian system or Spanish system... all I can say is in Italy the attorneys are very rich and can take a jaywalking offense and make a few million in fees off it.
  10. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Now the point and concerns as to this Michael Hanlon death. In France it is much more seriously considered than America... and more or complete investigation is done. What is bad about the situation for yachting is that the Captain, even the direct supervisor, the manager and management company and owner may all pay a heavy price. May very well find themselves in a similar situation as the American Yachtsman Tom Perkins found himself in over a sailing accident off of St. Tropez twenty years ago that was not his fault in any way. Brought to trial by a provincial court with little regard for sailing... or lifestyles of the rich and famous in a small French town. As memory serves he and the captains of both boats were all convicted of in English terms is manslaughter fined but given suspended prison sentences. The man that died family did not consider it any of those found guilty fault. Even though in American it would been likely considered a simple accident without fault.

    In this case of Michael Hanlon in France the notation of overwork like alluded to in the English press will be a very serious consideration toward some kind of criminal culpability. I really fear the results. As Tom Perkins said ... 'when I walked into the court for trial it appeared to me they had already decided I was guilty'. Now his punishment was not severe but it was a large stain to have what is considered a felony conviction for a tragic accident. This is the aspect of French law and they way it works that is scary for outsiders... France though a civilized country is some place that you do not want to be taken to trial or go to prison in. French prisons are overcrowded predominately muslim prisoners and horrific conditions... this english language article scratches the tip of it
    http://www.economist.com/node/13653923
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
  11. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Contrary to my fears... sense prevailed... DEATH + OFFICIAL RULING = ACCIDENTAL !

    You never know on these things the quickness of the result means it was obvious like I surmised in my mean old man original post.
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Except old man...lol....sorry, you used it again so couldn't resist..the rest of the story. Anything come out about what factors contributed? While it might well be legally not anyone's responsibility, accidents do normally have causes. It may be over serving at the bar, may be overworking and lack of sleep, may be just personal over drinking. It may or may not meet the level of contributory negligence. Does their ruling address these aspects? The death is an accident unless someone pushed him in, but that doesn't mean there were not contributory factors.

    Why is the rest important to me? So perhaps we save someone else from the same fate. Maybe that's just done by them not drinking as much or not drinking and then walking home alone (Seriously, designated walkers are not a bad idea as drunks coming out of bars late at night often have tragedy befall them.). Maybe it's by bars not serving to that point or arranging help home. Maybe it's by owners and Captains taking more responsibility.

    Be legal French definition ACCIDENTAL may be Truth, but it's not the whole truth.

    Are the French rulings just a simple ruling or do they include more about how that conclusion was reached and other observations regarding the event? I'm not asking to be critical but just to understand.

    I can say too that if I was the owner of that boat, I would feel a heavy responsibility and I would hope the rest of the crew would as well. A life of a young man was lost in a way that shouldn't have happened.
  13. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Being France and it being ruled accidental... I doubt much information at all will be released as I have said due to the Gallic views of personal privacy and protection of reputation. Some more details might be released if it had been viewed as criminal or serious negligence with public safety involved.

    That is how France works... you accept it and go on with your life.

    Its like the Yogi thing... as no loss of life was involved and the authorities found no serious issues means its pretty well kept quiet. Personally I think the gentleman involved in that had likely taken advantage of the rich old lady (+30 billion euro rich) in some kind of investment scam. And, knowing the French the press story was he paid her back (with what the insurance proceeds... but I don't think the insurance was ever claimed) it makes one wonder if she just wanted the tawry thing to go away and was willing to part with the 100 million or so to make it so... see if the yacht existing is an inconvenience it would have had to be sold or something and that would leave a trail of crumbs to followup ??? Easier said it was handled privately and she was paid back ... whether that was the truth or not!

    Personally I have seen the French side of the Family rather cover up things than deal with them for satisfaction... but if reputation is involved hell hath no fury to keep it quiet or extract vicious revenge ! That is why I don't allow tomahawks in the house.
  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    It should come as no surprise that the French legal machine is as flexible and unpredictable as a second hand johnny.

    The outcome was inevitable given the spineless way the Yogi Investigation was handled.

    Before you say this was so recent no one can be held to account, please refer back to 1985 and a French government sponsored terrorist attack by France on NZ and you will see yet another example of the rubber spine of your adopted country when it released the pair convicted of arson, conspiracy to commit arson, willful damage, and murder after two years in jail in blatant breach of its treaty obligation
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
  15. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Well a little more information...

    The word from the investigators...
    Stern warnings were issued to the owner, management company, and captain.
    Secondly, the events were not quite as reported in the press.
    The young man was overworked and that bordered on negligence and criminal culpability for the death which was the reason the warnings were given.

    ... which can be interpreted for the Anglo members of the forum it was borderline as to filing charges... !

    A very close call. And, a wake up call for then entire yachting community that run charters. Don't work your crew to exhaustion.
  16. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    The vessel was not on charter when this incident occurred
  17. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Preparing for an important Cannes Film Festival charter following a crossing voyage... from what I understand at the time of the incident. And, the young man was allowed little sleep. All the details are probably not going to be available except the crew of that yacht. It appears no one it talking on that front much. But the fact the situation was investigated and though ruled accidental that warning was given means it is not to be lightly taken. In America it would probably have caused civil action by the family to be taken... different in Europe.

    The other issues included that the boat was left without crew onboard and access to it was limited or not reasonably easy necessitating possible actions that could be dangerous to gain legal access, and in this case were proven so. This givens rise to issues off management policy and operations from all angles which many yachts have to deal with. However, the combination of overwork with little sleep, perhaps the temptations of ports of call following a voyage (not only for him but the entire crew as they left the boat unattended... common enough) and his access to his 'home' all were contributory.

    And, it easier to accidentally fall in the water than you suppose... in my youth I fell in helping cast off a line of a departing ship as a favor to the crew during daylight and totally sober... I am a good swimmer been through diver training but the pier situation was not very conducive to easily crawling out... I ended up swimming about 300m back to the ship I was stationed on to get help of a line dropped to me... AND PEOPLE SAW ME FALL IN... on the departing ship... but no one on the pier could see or hear very easily.... at a busy Naval pier during the daylight... and no one thought to call man overboard... as it was the pier!

    My opinion is exactly like the official conclusion things need to be fixed in managing the operations of the boat but it was a far too common occurrence of several factors leading to the tragic situation. The fact someone died should not have happened. But falling in the drink is not to be taken lightly.

    The point is someone is responsible for the safe operation and if someone is overtired; locked out of his 'home', and; has to resort to risky actions to get aboard the boat. How often have any of us walked by boats with the gangway/passerelle deployed to prevent boarding. No one may no the whole truth. So a convergence of factors and a young man ends up drowned... it deserves serious consideration. It should not but for a convergence of far too common events he would be alive.
  18. karo1776

    karo1776 Senior Member

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    Some confusion exists on this thread.

    I was confused with the recent inquest in England, in the news lately, with the original inquiry in France where and when the 'accident' happened. I had seen on Boat International web site the notice... it was not clear and as they rolled out the story of days... I did not follow... so I thought the original inquiry was re-openned, and the 'news' I posted was based on asking my staff to ask around as to that in France where it happened. So I was confused not realizing the information I posted was based on mistaking the new British inquest with the France investigation.

    The point is whatever the investigation the young man died and some reasponcibility has to be with the yacht and yachting community. We all can do better.

    HTM09 recently posted about the death of a young man, Jacob Nicol, a 22-year-old British man while cleaning the hull of the yacht Kibo... that is even more of a tragic accident... and absolutely unwarranted in my opinion based on information from the young man's sister.

    I would hope the ownership, management, and crew of that boat take full responsibility. The care alone will cost many millions if he lives. His injury due to oxygen deprivation of the brain following near drowning is similar in effect to the brain injuries of the F1 driver and champion Michael Schumacher.

    Both drownings and both easily prevented... tragic losses of young men at the beginning of their lives.
  19. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    The story of the bad accident on the yacht Kibo gets more and more confirmed here in Palma de Mallorca. Different reliable sources have confirmed that story. The authorities have started inquiries against the female engineer and the skipper for lack of administrative supervision, failure to render assistance in an emergency and / or (!!!) manslaughter through culpable negligence.

    No official would open such Pandora's box on just a tragic accident without some evidence.

    The SOP on all of our yachts and my commercial ships is very clear, as far as working, while hanging outside on the hull. The two man concept is mandatory. An able seaman has to be on standby and a "unconscious safe" life jacket has to be worn by both sailors, period.

    The story of the tragic death of Michael Hanlon is even more hard to believe. A young deckhand trying to climb onboard his boat, via the ropes, in the night and then found been drowned on the ground under the boat next morning, sounds pretty unbelievable to me.
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Here we go trial by keyboard.

    I have never seen or heard any mention of a female engineer having any involvement in the Kibo incident, not even in the very emotional blog by the injured guys sister was this mentioned.