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Wireless Networks

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by dallas tacon, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. dallas tacon

    dallas tacon New Member

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    As well as the forums fulfill my thirst for knowledge and thanks to all, I have yet to encounter any thread on wifi and carbon!!

    Does anyone have any history with wireless networks on carbon sailing or motor yachts.? I know of yachts that have had problems (racer-cruisers and racers- sailing yachts) with trying to get signals to B&G Deckman tablets as the signal goes all over the shop.....anyone care to enlighten me??

    I work in an industry somewhat related and as every yacht gets more hi tech and modern, so the need for new solutions arises.Also do we see the need for fibre optic solutions in the modern yacht and how much emphasis is placed on owner ´creature`comforts over kiss principles....

    Let the debate begin and once again, great forum!!
    ;)
  2. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    I doubt we will ever see fiber optics on yachts, the equipment needed at both ends to interpret the signals would take longer than just sending it down a wire. Maybe when the first 300 meter yacht gets built, and the mainframe is at the back, and the owners suite is at the very front, and the owner is editing 3D animations in real time. Never used wifi around carbon though, sorry.
  3. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Fiber optics have been used on yachts since 20 years. Even on sailboats.
  4. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Wait, for information or for lighting? For lighting absolutely, but for information it doesn't make any sense.
  5. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I am not thinking of fiber-lighting, but controls and communication/information systems.
  6. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Why? Sure you might save 200 pounds, but yachts don't exactly put of tremendous EM interference and fiber optic is so vulnerable.

    I did overlook control systems, and was thinking purely about computers used for other things, but outside of the relatively minor weight savings (and corrosion if you don't hire someone who knows how to run copper) I simply can't come up with an advantage that fiber has on a yacht over copper.
  7. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    There are numerous advantages. One is that you can add controls without building in new wires in precious and tight environments.
  8. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Well I guess I stand corrected then.

    Thanks Lars.
  9. walkinginshadow

    walkinginshadow Member

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    That can be done with wired too......
    And the best with fiber is that not current-conducting.

    The problem with wlan and carbon is that carbon dampen the signal very good.
  10. corinthian99

    corinthian99 New Member

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    As to the question of fibre optics - makes excellent sense over 70m. Remember CAT6a is limited to 100m (as I remember but can't remember exactly), bandwidth demands are increasing (AV systems inc. HD video) and the cost of fibre optics is decreasing. Can see quite a rosy future for fibre optics on larger yachts.

    As to carbon fibre + wifi interesting question, love to know the answer like you.:)
  11. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    CAT5 is 100 mbps CAT5E is 1000mbps CAT6 is 1000mbps+

    With CAT7A you can run 40 gigabit Ethernet at 40 meters (so 20 at 80M approximately) Higher speeds one directionally. If you are copying a HD video you may have to wait for 18 seconds rather than 6 seconds, however considering the fact that you will have to wait 15 minutes to write that sucker to the drive it is doubtful that you will notice any effect.
  12. Ju52

    Ju52 Senior Member

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    Well, I'm from IT and not from Yachting...

    Today there is an shift from fiber to copper. Copper is cheaper, shielded etc..
    Have you ever fixed a broken fiber?

    We use fiber between servers, storage networks and network switches.
    Fiber will work today with 4 ..10 GBit where CAT7 starts. The dirty last mile is copper, who has PCs and Laptops with a fiber interface ???

    I will see copper on the main trail.

    And wireless? The speed will increase bute WLAN will never work through metal. You need an infrastructure of managed access points. This is a lot of smoke (energy) in the air.

    We will have mixed solutions. In ship with copper, on sun deck wireless.

    IMHO
  13. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    This is how the last two new builds I have done have been speced by the AV/IT Suppliers.

    There is large resistance from the yards I have dealt with to pulling in a Fibre Backbone, they always cite difficulties in termination as their reason to not want to use it.

    We have a survey done close to the end of construction to determine that the initial layout has all areas covered as required and to see if we need any additional units.
  14. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    What I took away from what Lars said was that you don't have to make the components play nice together. There is no way that your monitors and controllers are handling enought information to make copper unrealistic, and lets face it, if you have room for 3/16th worth of fiber you have room for 5/16ths worth of copper.

    Also what is the advantage of a non-conductor? If the Yacht has enough EMF to make this an issue you have way bigger problems than fiber versus copper, and you have copper at both ends of fiber anyways.
  15. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Remember, this was what I commented on. Not if there are better systems around, it is beyond my knowledge.
  16. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    I still think that working with sub-optimal systems (as you pointed out) is a legitimate reason, and its not one that I thought of. Had I been covering my *** like I should have I would have included a loop hole for systems with severe technical limitations, I was only thinking of networks and new builds with the latest generation of equipment, not previous limitations, which is why I came up with the wrong answer right out of the gate.
  17. dallas tacon

    dallas tacon New Member

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    Thanks, very interesting to see how people view it. I know we will be releasing fibre for AV type/control systems and the weight saving in immense..... 60kg/1000m or 40lb/1000ft.......... and the signal loss is minimal and bandwith is high.....It may a tad difficult to terminate but this , I believe, is being addressed and the bend radius is not too bad. For Media service and quick switching, esp with HD rearing its head, I do think there is a market....
  18. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    The Human eye can only see so much, it's really poorly engineered. Our brains can see even less. Also keep in mind that people on dry land get HD over co-ax from the cable company, and over co-ax or ladder from a dish to the decoder. I think co-ax is something like 15-mbps and ladderline is something like 20.
  19. dallas tacon

    dallas tacon New Member

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    Fortunately the yacht owner don´t seem to know that and want the latest of everything, eventually it all boils down to he with the most toys who dies, wins sometimes. Granted when your vessel has 10 to 20 tv with vid servers, multiple sources etc, the last thing they eant is poor signal for monday night football
  20. dallas tacon

    dallas tacon New Member

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    Any further thought to carbon structures and wi fi???

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