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VIDEO - Sunk Bertram Discussion

Discussion in 'Bertram Yacht' started by YachtForums, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    A few of our senior members should be receiving a link in their inbox to the video of the sunk Bertram 630 "Absolutely". Please do not share this link yet. We’re still configuring resources on the server to handle the load. The aspect ratio is slightly off (vertically), but still viewable.



    The video is only viewable to registered YF members.
    You must be logged-in to see it...



    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/yachtforums-videos/12821-video-sunk-bertram-630-absolutely.html


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  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That is incredible footage. There is definite delam all over the place, but the core pockets mostly look filled. I'll leave it to the experts to figure out if the boat breaking apart caused the delam or the delam caused the boat to break apart. Quite frankly it looks like it got hit by an RPG more so than a buoy or simply delam. I've never seen anything like that where there wasn't a blatantly obvious cause like a dock sitting on top of it. Thanks for sharing.
  3. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

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    Fascinating.
    Don't know what else to say. I'm not an expert, and I can't hypothesize. I've seen boats sink, (and have brought them back to the surface) but I've never seen anything like this before in the sheer amount of catastrophic damage from bow to stern.

    There is so much to digest in the video as far as the condition of the boat, it's simply amazing to wrap your head around. Still, after viewing the video, I have a new and perhaps longer list of questions.

    I can tell you this.... that boat went through a horrifically rough ride prior to its arrival at the seabed floor.
  4. rocdiver

    rocdiver Senior Member

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    Agreed.

    Much easier to put the catastrophic damage of the vessel in perspective when viewing the video instead of screen captures.

    I'm thinking seriously about having a boat made out of those buoys. I could then run over battlewagons all day long and suffer barely a scratch. :)

    ROCKY
  5. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

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    Let's make a concerted effort to keep this thread clean of jokes, one offs, theories, etc. We've already got 60 some odd pages of that in the orig. thread.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The raw footage is even more incredible than the captures. I still think a lot of the damages occured on the way to or on bottom but still doesn't explain why it sunk in the first place. I can't help thinking something went wrong during the construction process, hopefully a one time incident.
  7. CaptainSilva

    CaptainSilva Senior Member

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    I'll second that.
  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    The Video sure drives home just how catastrophically it has come apart. There are a lot of bits and pieces moving around that should have never been able to separate from what they were joined to.

    I wonder what happened to all the stuff it was supposed to be loaded with.

    The extent of the damage sure reminds me of a Alu Yacht that had a gasoline leak that filled the bilges and was ignited by a head being flushed. The damage was pretty amazing and really drove home the point to many of the expansion rate of a gas explosion.

    IMO The lines in the sand forward of the props could have been caused by the hull rocking back and forth if there was any substantial sea running that got down that far.
  9. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    Well at least I don't have to keep biting my tongue any longer.

    The video is, am sure, as ****ing now as when I first saw it a while back.

    Once you see the footage, I think the "buoy did it" theory goes right out the window for good.
  10. Garry Hartshorn

    Garry Hartshorn Senior Member

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    WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a miracle that the crew survived and did they all ??. I watched that twice then got a cup of coffee and watched it again. It is my opinion that that boat was involved with a major impact, something like they hit a tow cable between a tug and tow at speed and was subsequently run over by the barge. I see the delamination but the damage is so intense and for want of a better word mechanical in how it has been inflicted that I have to believe that no boat would have survived regardless of construction.
  11. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    Haven't had the opportunity to see it all the way through, and only in some segments at that, but it does seem possible that some of the forward damage was done enroute to the bottom, but the fact that interior wall panels are still intact doesn't suggest a stuffed bow and raging influx of seawater to me.

    I am also rather shocked at just how lightly that boat is laid up to begin with. That's a big bet on any manufacturer's part on very little material. I don't want to call it insubstantial, but I'd expect at least some heavier matting where wire runs and joinery work attaches.

    Am anticipating more reaction when I've got an opportunity to see the rest.
  12. CaptainSilva

    CaptainSilva Senior Member

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    I'm speechless. Short of running into a concrete wall, I can't see how a 63' vessel could end up looking like that.

    The still photos don't do any justice at all. I don't think I fully comprehended the amount of damage that occurred until I watch it.
  13. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    I watched the entire video in awe of the level of destruction. What in the heck could have taken the bow and foredeck apart like it is, and also ripped the transom clean off? The damage to that boat is catastrophic.
  14. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    The destruction is not unlike any number of offshore raceboats that have stuffed a wave at high speed. A simple YouTube search reveals a number of spectacular go-fast blunders. While offshore race boats are traveling at a higher velocity, they also have a much narrower beam and significantly less weight. A 63' sportfish is heavy boat. It's not inclined to go over a wave, but rather go through a wave. Couple this with a wide beam and whole lot of flair in the bow... and something has to give when you impact a wave.

    And if you think water isn't capable of generating the necessary pressure to rip fiberglass apart, then how do we explain water's ability to launch a 100,000 lb boat cleanly out of the water at 40 knots...

    [​IMG]
  15. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    I'm wondering just how fast this boat was running and what kind of seas it could have encountered to stuff and result in that.

    Had this been a custom build for an owner who insisted that it be lighter, thinner, faster then I would place the onus squarely on the customer because he spent the money to take the risk and the builder was simply there to do his bidding... any builder.

    To my knowledge this was not a custom built boat for a specific ordering customer. It looks, from some shots of the construction, as though this was built like a 40' go-fast weighing 8 tons at most.

    The interior shots still show intact bulkheads (such as the shots of the head) where I'd expect devastation if the entire fore was sheared in a bow stuff. There's no question this boat went down fast and landed hard. There is absolutely a mark on the bow below the waterline that could have been caused by a buoy strike, but considering other marks on the boat, could have been caused by any number of other impacts. I'm not willing to speculate as to that particular mark.

    I will say again I am astounded by the lack of substance to what I would consider key areas of the hull where it remains. I could understand some of the delamination in a go-fast that had been pounded at triple digit speeds for a few seasons, but not in the side of a 100,000lb sportfisher that is (or should be) built with the expectation of a long life of hard use.

    Apparently removing coring material to place switch and outlet boxes in a hull side? Apparently running wires through coring in a hull side? I am, frankly, astonished that this might be accepted industry practice.
  16. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Associate

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    Hope they had a smooth landing!
  17. YES!

    YES! Senior Member

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    I have kept quiet but actually enjoy some of the urbane banter. As long as people are polite, some speculation can be interesting. As always, Carl, you have proven to be the consummate moderator, applying just enough stick yet allowing the lively discourse.

    As to my initial reaction all those many paes ago, it is illustrated clearly in the last picture. Separation of the hull from the foredeck while burying the stem is not uncommon, and it appears that the 63 even has a nicely positioned "can opener" through the leverage of bow pulpit.

    Having some significant time above and below the waves, IMHO the effects of a sunken vessel being moved by currents imposes bruises, cuts and scrapes; however, I personally believe that with the entire vessel moving without counter-forces or stresses, there would not be sufficient friciton to impose such catastrophic delaminations regardless of time submerged.

    Some bright, young minds out there, Carl, so let them run; but continue to slap the nasty boys without hesitation. Plenty of room for levity but sniping and aggression must remain curbed. Thanks for the great job and entertaining read.

    Happy New Year to all.
  18. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Thank you Stan. I am sincerely humbled. We are very privileged - honored - to have an ex-Navy SEAL and the commander of the US Naval Fleet in the southern hemisphere as a member of YachtForums. Little did I know, when I sneaked up behind you at the Marriott some years ago, watching one of your magnificent creations slide by, you could have taken my head off for saying "isn't that an ugly boat!". I was of course, joking. But you took it in stride before you even had a chance to recognize me. Your response to my witless remark was indicative of a man of your accomplishments... "I think it's the most beautiful boat in the world". To this, everyone on YF agrees.
  19. Garry Hartshorn

    Garry Hartshorn Senior Member

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    I would like to propose the following theory as a possibility. The vessel in question was on a converging course with a tug in tow about 45 degrees but did not see or realize that situation. They unwittingly attempted to pass between the tug and barge and fouled the tow cable causing a gash from the point about a foot above the waterline on the stem to the gunnel on the starboard side. They were then dragged a short distance which cause much tearing as the vessel swung around and began to sink by the bow, the stern now is facing the bow of the barge nearly square on the impact crushing the upper part of the transom as the vessel is pushed under. As the barge passes over the vessel it is thrust bow down until vertical the bow is completely ripped off and the transom is abraded and the rudders and props are damaged as the vessel continues to roll end for end under the barge.

    While I can accept the bow damage due to stuffing it does not explain the damage to the transom or running gear and I do not believe that this damage happened by rolling around on the seafloor for a few days.

    As I said it is only a theory.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That would help to explain the amount of damage. Two problems I have with that theory though are that it doesn't jibe with the reports and more so I have trouble seeing them getting between a tug and tow where they were and on the course they were following (Cape Fear to Hilton Head). It wouldn't match up with a tow going in or out of Cape Fear nor one running between Frying Pan and Charleston nor Georgetown. Haven't put the parallels down, but that's how it looks. I kind of lean toward the 1 in a million shot of the buoy striking it just right (wrong) and dragging the bow down or catastophic delamination, but I can't help thinking that the deck coming off would have been noticed before that amount of damage and a stuffing could occur. I'll leave it to those who know way more than me.

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