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unknown Abeking & Rasmussen Yacht

Discussion in 'Abeking & Rasmussen Yacht' started by spongebob, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. spongebob

    spongebob New Member

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    I have a Abeking & Rasmussen sloop built in 1935 by Henry Rasmussen and was used by German Navy during second world war. It was taken as a prize of war by Britian and presented to Canadian Navy who used it for races and eventually was sold thru war assets. How would I find out which particular boat it was as it had no hull number as it was built before they put them on the hull.
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    You don´t know the original name? Or type of boat? The most famous from 1935 is the 8m R-yacht Germania III built for Krupp.

    EDIT, I saw in your profile the name Amsel which is a 50 sqm boat with build nr 2930.
  3. spongebob

    spongebob New Member

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    Amsel

    I know the type of boat. It is 50 qm Seefahrtkreuzer. I know when the Canadian Navy had it they re-named it "Tuna". I do not know the original name. Any idea how I can trace this?
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    How can you say exactly what it's year of build is?

    Does it have any materials on it that bear any manufacturers name and serial no from that era?

    Is there any particular physical characteristic about it that would make it stand out against other 50 qm cruisers which could be used to identify it?
  5. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    There was a 50 sqm boat named Amsel built in 1935 as I said above. She has a sistership from 1936, built for the same organisation with some information here: http://naldera.com/html/description.html
  6. spongebob

    spongebob New Member

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    I can say it was built in 1935 only because of in Canada what is called "Blue Book" and this contains all the particulars of a particular vessel and registers it and according to the blue book dated 1979 the official number is 392649 and under date of previous registry it says formally German built and documented vessel, being built in 1935 in Bremen, Germany. At the top of the certificate of registry it says "Authority granted by Transport Order No. 171, in 1964 dated August 17, 1964 to register this vessel without production of the Builder's Certificate - the Bill of Sale from Crown Assets Disposal Corporation being accepted as the foundation document." The person I bought the vessel from had the original Bill Of Sale with the ship name being "Tuna" and overall length being 40 feet 6 inches, which is longer than the 50 sq. meter and that at the time he had to pick a registry name as Tuna was the Royal Canadian Navy name and he picked Amsel as a personal choice. Would anyone know where the "Germania III" went? It was an eight meter R-Yacht built for Krupp V. Bohlen, Essen. The vessel I have was a prize of war, I suspect it may be this one.
    I also have a set of plans or profiles for 50 sq. meter vessel built at the time by Abeking & Rasmussen and that it doesnt' seem to fit the vessel I have. Plans are fpr 50 sq meter Seefahrtkreuzer, Bau Nt. 2907
  7. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    What about my answers in post #2 and #5? Is your boat not Amsel and does it not look like the other one..?
  8. spongebob

    spongebob New Member

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    unkown Abeking & Rasmussen

    I don't know that it is "Amsel" so much history lost between transactions. Looking at the website you provided I know it is not the sister ship.
  9. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    OK, do you by any chance have a picture of your boat? Is it closer to 50 feet like Germania III (picture) or how long is she?

    I have now found out that Germania (III) is back in Kiel, rebuilt as shown in this picture: http://www.yachtbild.de/bild_arch/images/CY28-115.jpg

    Attached Files:

  10. spongebob

    spongebob New Member

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    unknown Abeking & Rasmussen

    I have pictures but I'm having trouble attaching them. How do I attach? Overall length is 12.45 meters and from the fore part of the stem to the rudder stock is 34 feet and 2/10
  11. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    At 12.45 m she is shorter than Naldera at 12.60 m. To post a picture you should preferable have a JPG less than 640 pixels wide and follow the instructions in the "Manage Attachments" window which appears below the text field.
  12. spongebob

    spongebob New Member

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    unknown Abeking & Rasmussen

    Thanks for your help - pictures are attached

    Attached Files:

  13. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    To me she look very much the same as Naldera. Why do you think she was named Amsel if it isn´t the original Amsel?
  14. spongebob

    spongebob New Member

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    unknown Abeking & Rasmussen

    When she was bought by a private citizen from the Canadian Navy he had to pick a name from the registry for that year and as a personal preference he picked Amsel.
  15. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    How do you expect to learn more about your boat without telling what you already know? There was eight boats of this series built in 1935. All seems to have been training boats for militaries and all could have been "prizes of war". In all, 34 of them were built.

    BTW, did you check the links provided at the Naldera site? Some 50 sqm to read about; http://www.takel-ing.com and http://www.fky.org/yachten segler.htm

    Here is an interesting link from the above pages: http://seascamp.co.uk/history.htm

    And a little movie on a sistership that is now in Poland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZT4iwEtSL8&feature=player_embedded
  16. spongebob

    spongebob New Member

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    unknown Abeking & Rasmussen

    I don't know much about the vessel - basically everything is in post #6. Thank you for the links.
  17. German Oak

    German Oak New Member

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    When the building-number is 2907, then the former name is "Seebär" (sea bear). Here is the link for the buliding-numbers of Abeking & Rasmussen:

    http://www.abeking.com/uploads/media/Baunummernverzeichis.pdf

    Germania III was rebuild at the middle of the nineties from Wegener Yachtwerft in Wedel near Hamburg and is lying in summer in the baltic sea and during winter in Wedel at the shipyard from Wegener. In 1998 they won the worldchampionship of the 8 mR yachts.

    http://www.wegenerjachtwerft.de/_res_germani3.html
    http://www.yachtbild.de/bild_arch/images/CY28-115.jpg
  18. Kap Hoorn

    Kap Hoorn New Member

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    Seefahrtkreuzer

    Hello everybody out there,
    I'm restoring an 50m2, build 1937 at A&R, Build Nr. 3232 and I can say from the one picture with the blue Hull, this is a 50m2 for sure.
    The form of the bow above the waterline, the stern overhang and the deckhouse make an identification easy to me.
    May be the stern was cut sometime ago, but there were several lines plans from A&R, two deckhouse versions, minimun two layouts and a lot of different building methods, Lead and iron keels and so on, because of private/navy/airforce clients, lead was unfortunately used later on for different purposes.
    An 8mR is much bigger, usually about 15m overall.
    On the website www.takeling.de you'll find the complete List of all build Seefahrtkreuzer Boats from 30 to 150m2, Plans, Pictures and much more.
    This our central website for this boatclass, actually there are about 10 boats of 50m2 in germany.
    On fky dot org you will find direct links to websites of professionell Fotographers. They took Pictures last Weekend during the "German Classics", where 4 Boats of 50m2 and one 80m2 where to see.
    The Sail Number is always in connection with an roman number, for examle III for 30m2, V for 50m2, VIII for 80m2 and so on.
    If anyone wants further information, Pictures or Plans, write to me, my address should be visible.
    In 2010 there is an class meeting beeing held during the cowes classic week and last year a book was written in english language, which can be bought here: http://www.windfallyachts.com/
    Suddenly the author died in autumn, but his work is to be continued.
    The pictures:
    The varnished boat was restored to original condition in 2007
    the white boat is mine, stored in the garden of the previous owner in brittany, france and the plans is the version with the short deckhouse, usually build for the navy or airforce.

    So you are asked, to tell us and them all facts about your boat, you can ever find.

    Real boats are made of wood, everything else just looks like one by coincedence.

    Best Greetings,
    André

    Attached Files:

    • A&R.jpg
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  19. Jan Huerkamp

    Jan Huerkamp New Member

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    Amsel or not...

    Hello Spongebob,

    The picture you posted and the dimensions look very much like a Abeking 50sqm Seefahrtkreuzer.
    What are the odds that the previous owner chose the original name when he had to pick one, maybe he still knew it? A&R boats used to have a bronce plate around the rudder shaft telling the year, build number and yard. Maybe the plate was still in place when it was sold.
    For those who don't have a german background: Amsel is german for black bird. Most of the yachts built for the German Air Force had bird names. In 1935 five 50sqm where built for the Luftwaffe, one of them being Amsel.
    In the Register ( http://www.takel-ing.de/pageID_4742970.html ) the whereabouts of Amsel are not known (yet) so I'd say there is a good chance that your boat is the original Amsel.

    Here is the information about Amsel that I have:

    Sail number V 34, built in 1935 by Abeking & Rasmussen in Lemwerder, Bremen. Build Nr. 2930, original scantlings: Loa: 12,45m, Beam: 2,61, Draft: 1,67m. Built without engine, Honduras Mahagony planks on steambent oak frames, first owner: Luftkreiskommando VI in Kiel, stationed at Bug on the island of Rügen. Built to the lines, accomodation and sailplan of build Nr. 2907.

    I attached 2 pictures of Amsel in lightwind racing... or say I'll try.

    Hope this helps,
    Best Regards, Jan

    Attached Files:

  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    With permission of the previous posters I would like to show all the oprevious picturws etc to an old guy who worked at Abeking all his working life, I am told he is the guru of all old boats they did. I can only approach him through someone I know who has contact so please be patient.

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