Click for Westport Click for Abeking Click for JetForums Click for MotorCheck Click for Mulder

Tragedy in Antigua; Captain Shot & Killed...

Discussion in 'Yacht Captains' started by K1W1, Jan 23, 2009.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    What exactly is your source for that statement because, unless you are absolutely sure, that is a slanderous statement against a deceased, respected captain who can't defend himself. I sincerely doubt you'd find even a joint on the captain of such a yacht.
  2. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,721
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    Excerpts from the Antigua Sun http://www.antiguasun.com/paper/?as=view&sun=381203046102022009&an=185623037302022009&ac=Local

    "He was at the time on his way home in the company of his girlfriend and their young child on the night of 22 Jan., when he was approached by his assailant in an apparent robbery attempt.


    Meanwhile Head of the Criminal Investigation Department Jacque Ouellette dismissed the speculation about drug involvement in the incident.


    “We did not find that drugs had anything to do with this investigation. So we have to leave that the way it is,” Ouellette stated.
    "


    I fully expect to have my vessel searched every time I enter port and I imagine that others do as well.
    Furthermore, how can you possibly try to migrate this thread into a discussion of customs policies? A man was killed while visiting English Harbor, which was considered a very safe place to be moored when I last visited.
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,118
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    i agee, very wrong to spread unfounded rumors about drugs when the police confirmed no drugs were found.

    as to cash, it's not unusual from captains to have cash, nothing illegal or wrong with that anyway.

    Most if not all captains have a zero tolerance policy on board their vessels.
  4. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,721
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    It seems to be common practice for some of the locals to blame the tourist when violence occurs in a place which relies on tourism. It also seems to be common to try to downplay the event so as not to spook other tourists from coming.
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Setting up a college fund for his child financed by a slander suit could solve that.
  6. OutMyWindow

    OutMyWindow Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    ...............
    Although stupidity has no borders, the Islands do have more than their share...
    _________________________________

    Caribbean Now the World's Murder Capital:
    Why, and Which Islands are Safest & Most Dangerous?
    by www.SixWise.com


    Over 22 million tourists, and another 20 million cruise ship passengers, flock to the Caribbean islands each year to take advantage of the sun, the endless miles of coastline and the tropical "no worries" environment.

    But there is a growing dark cloud that's threatening all of the Caribbean's clear, blue seas: a swiftly growing crime rate that now rivals some of the most infamous and unstable regions in the world, like southern and western Africa.
    The Caribbean is Now the Murder Capital of the World
    "High rates of crime and violence in the Caribbean are undermining growth, threatening human welfare, and impeding social development," according to a new report by the World Bank and the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).
    The report, "Crime, Violence, and Development: Trends, Costs, and Policy Options in the Caribbean," found that murder rates in the Caribbean are higher than in any other region in the world.
    Overall, murders occur in the Caribbean at a rate of 30 per 100,000 people. Comparably, in East Europe, murder rates are at 17 per 100,000, in the United States, seven.
    Assault rates in the Caribbean are also significantly above the world average, and rates of rape, kidnapping and other violent crimes have also been on the rise, according to the report.
    Most of the crime in the Caribbean stems from massive narcotics trafficking, which helps spur crime rates in the following ways:
     Diverts police and other resources away from other important activities
     Increases and brings in violence
     Undermines social and community unity
     Increases addiction-related crimes
     Increases the availability of firearms
    The crime is threatening the region's image as a "paradise," which is seriously undermining their tourist industry. Meanwhile, if murder rates were reduced by one-third, the report found, per capita economic growth in the region could be doubled. And in Haiti and Jamaica, a reduction in murder rates could boost annual economic growth by 5.4 percent.

    Although the report points out that small countries in the Caribbean can get high murder rates from a relatively small number of incidents, the authors noted that crime levels are definitely rising to concerning levels.

    Is it Safe to Travel to the Caribbean?
    Despite the high crime rates, the majority of visitors to the Caribbean have a safe trip, according to the U.S. Department of State. You should still, of course, exercise commonsense precautions when traveling anywhere, and remember to be extra careful around the Caribbean beaches, as drowning is one of the leading causes of death for Americans in the Caribbean, according to the Department of State.
    If you are thinking of planning a trip, which islands are the safest and the most dangerous? Here we've compiled a guide to some of the safer and riskier Caribbean islands.

    Generally Safer Caribbean Islands
    These islands have a reputation for being among the safest in the region:
     Anguilla
     Aruba
     British Virgin Islands
     Cayman Islands
     St. Vincent and the Grenadines
    Potentially Dangerous Caribbean Islands
     Haiti: The poorest and most unstable country in the region. The U.S. Department of State has issued a travel warning for Haiti because of frequent violent kidnappings of Americans for ransom.
     Jamaica: Criminal acts are a major problem and can rapidly turn violent. According to the Department of State, "Visitors should exercise common sense, not walk around at night, and use only licensed taxis or hotel-recommended transportation. Valuables should not be left unattended anywhere, including hotel rooms and the beach, and care should be taken when carrying high value items such as cameras, wearing expensive jewelry, or displaying large amounts of cash on the street."
     Trinidad and Tobago: Murder and other violent crimes are increasing (though Tobago is typically much safer than Trinidad). The Department of State suggests that travelers may not want to travel alone in the area.
  7. stevenpet

    stevenpet New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Monterey, Maui, Salt Lake City
    I don’t think the best answer is to simply pull out of a port or country in fear and retreat to the nearest harbor we deem safe.

    I think a far better solution can be reached by working with the local governments and authorities and coming up with a strategy that will not only make the harbors safer, but to also seek real solutions to the rampant poverty. From what I’ve heard on other websites, this is exactly what the yachting community at English Harbour is doing.

    No matter where we are, no matter what extremes we go to, there is nothing we can do to assure our 100% safety. I hope that all of us will take the necessary precautions to live safely without becoming a slave to fear.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    That is exactly what the local yachting communities and authorities should be doing, but that is not the job of tourists or touring yachts. They come there to enjoy themselves. If a local community wants the tourist dollars they'd best make their areas safe. Yachts don't go places to join crusades. The State Department doesn't issue travel advisories to attract tourists.
  9. goplay

    goplay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Sausalito, CA
    I think these countries can quickly stem the violence if they allow and let it be broadly known, that yachts can enter and be fully armed while on board (as opposed to locked up on board or worse, guns in police custody).

    Most of the crimes are street thugs that avoid any situation where they might be the confronted by a greater force. Complacent police and unprotected yachtistas can't be more tempting to the criminal thug.

    ...and I am a Democrat!
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Do you have any idea how complicated your life becomes when you shoot a burglar in your own home? Can you imagine what happens when you do it in a foreign country. We are not police.
  11. DocRon

    DocRon Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Durban, South Africa
    I totally agree with this comment. Fear is a form of manipulation and results in people becoming slaves to the manipulators, which is their intention.

    We need to take precautions and allow the officials to do their jobs without becoming vigilantes. He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword.

    I am not a lawyer but their are huge implications to shooting an individual, even if he/she is standing unwelcomed on your yacht. First you need to prove that you were acting in self defence and the intruder had an intention to commit grievious bodily harm. This could become nasty in a foreign country and one may just find yourself on the wrong side of a lawsuit even if you believe you were acting in best interest of yourself and the crew.

    May peace be with you!
  12. wadadli

    wadadli Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Antigua, Antigua & Barbuda
    I am in no way of being slanderous by any means; because, i know much better than that. Although i don't have any tangible evidence to produce to you people, this news came directly out of the police comference they had. If i can get my hands on that info i'll produce it right away.

    **another thing, you people on the internet tend to be very malicious, and are quick to make conclusions, without having any knowledge on a given situations**
  13. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,721
    Location:
    Somewhere Sunny
    We're working with the published information. It sure seemed to me that you were trying to insinuate that the Captain was somehow at fault for his murder because there were drugs involved. Please post the information if you're able.
  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,388
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    Wadadli- Your silence on this issue up until your post that contradicts everything in the public domain to date raises it's own suspicions as to your reasons for such an off the wall statement as that made then and the next one in post No 32.

    There is no whisper of the the motive being drugs the Capt was carrying amongst yacht people I know who are still in ANU or where there at the time.

    Robbery remains the likely motive, the money gained by such might well be used to buy drugs.

    You will just have to wait for the outcome of the court case and realize that ANU like most other places in the world is becoming a more dangerous place as time goes by.

    In the meantime please refrain from posting totally unsubstantiated statements like you have at least out of respect to the deceased and his family if not yourself and the rest of the law abiding residents of Antigua ( I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here as being amongst this group)
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Wadadi,
    The holder of a Masters license is very jealous of his reputation as everybody should be. Word spreads in the boating world fast and unsubstantiated statements can ruin a person's career. Personally I will always stick up for the underdog. It's just my nature. To blame the deceased who can't defend themselves,without proof, is cowardly and to repeat it is foolish because the coward will generally hide behind an inuendo leaving the fool to be taken to task. Whenever you speak ill of someone be very sure of your sources so you don't get used. I notice in your profile that you are a student. Let's all consider this a leason learned and put it behind us.
  16. goplay

    goplay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Sausalito, CA
    Yes as a matter of fact, I do.

    Not to take this off-tanget, but this not about police, it is about defending oneself. In all of the killings and injuries of boaters that have been reported in central america and caribbean in 2008, the police were nowhere near to intervene. Just like many aspects of serious cruising, you are on your own. Even my raving anti-gun friends understand that concept.

    Lastly, just because you have a weapon does not mean you have to shoot. It is the option to shoot that gives you the ability to defend and actually prevent a crime against you, your family and crew.

    Of course, that implies training, like everything else.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I just came back from Antigua after spending 3 days there and 2 totally different captains told me that the word on what happened is that the Captain was buying drugs for or to dispurse to crew members and owed the dealer some money and the dealer approached him with a gun. Something happened (a scuffle) and the dealer dropped the gun and it discharged shooting the Captain's girlfriend in the foot or leg. They both went for the gun (Captain and dealer) and the dealer was able to shoot the Captain with it while they were fighting for control of the weapon. The owner has fired all crew members on the vessel and hired new ones. This is what I heard from 2 different independant sources. The police were trying to keep the publicity down as much as possible with the elections coming up there.

    Both captains that told me this story run vessels over 100' and were there at the time (in Antigua) docked in English Harbor. One of them I have known very well for over 10 years and trust his word. I flew down to bring him a part for the vessel and just got back. The other captain I met while I was over at English Harbor having lunch. Nobody seemed bothered about there own personal safety while in Antigua that I met.
  18. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    Is Everything!
    Did your Captain friend see this from a far, or gather this information while on the island?
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    He did not personally see it. He was docked at English Harbor during the time that it happened. It is what he heard from several people that were at English Harbor. He was in Antigua since before the incident happened, until yesterday when he headed out. I came home from Antigua tonight. People were acting like nothing happened. Plenty of stewardesses walking around and biking down the streets away from English Harbor without a care in the world. Nobody was acting cautious from what I saw. I didn't see any undesirable looking people in the vicinity of English Harbor or Jolly Harbor while I was there.
  20. DocRon

    DocRon Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Durban, South Africa
    so what really happened?

    It is quite interesting to see how topics can sometimes go around in circles.