Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by YachtForums, Nov 8, 2011.
Could we be on the verge of anarchy?
US wealth gap between young and old is widest ever - Boston.com
That's a lot of statistical data to digest... and scary.
"The 47-to-1 gap in net worth between old and young is believed by demographers to be the highest ever, even predating government records"
Predating government records? Then, how would they even know?
"While the gap in net worth has been widening gradually due to delayed marriage and increases in single parenting among young adults, the housing bust and recession have made it significantly worse"
True, and the first three are self inflicted, and are contributing factors to the recession.
"Households headed by someone under age 39 had their median net worth reduced by 27 percent in 2009 as a result of unsecured liabilities, mostly a combination of credit card debt and student loans. No other age group had anywhere near that level of unsecured liability acting as a drag on net worth"
But I'll bet they always have the latest & greatest gadget as soon as Apple rolls it out.
"Sheldon Danziger, a University of Michigan public policy professor who specializes in poverty, noted skyrocketing college tuition costs, which come as many strapped state governments cut support for public universities"
I am painfully aware. I have two daughters in college. Both are students at Big Ten schools. It's over $50K per student per year!
"Complaints about wealth inequality, high unemployment and student debt also have been front and center at Occupy Wall Street protests around the country"
I think the Occupy Protests are a direct result of the current administration and it's class warfare rhetoric, holding a match to the fuse for purely political purposes. Even Bill Clinton has said that Obama's criticism of Wall Street is "too harsh" and "counterproductive" ...and as for "complaints about wealth inequality" The only solution, for what it's worth, can be found in the history books - it is for the Government to have the wealth, and make sure it's citizens are equally poor.
When Giuliani in NY said, " occupy a job" there is more truth in that than what some want to believe, those that dropout of school, those teens and young adults who decide that drugs and violence are an easy out, theft, muggings, California jails full, early release of prisoners, turning alcohol abuse into a "disease" so you can't be fired, turning stress into a work related illness, not letting employers fire workers for cause unless the offence continues after 3 warnings, and on and on it goes, the smart parent whose kids stay in school, learn properly will turn out to be part of the "wealthy" and then be scorned and overtaxed to support those who fail to occupy their school, their job and normal legal activities.
Why can't we call a spade a spade instead of a shovel ?? excuses just keep going on..
Most of it is caused by the actions of the younger generation. I'm only 34 and consider myself the exception, financially for people my age, as my wealth and net worth for the most part continues to grow, but I'm very conservative in my lifestyle compared to most my age.
But, the mentality has changed. For example when I went to college, nobody got student loans, it was rare and pretty much unheard of unless you were going to law school or med school. You just worked to pay for going to school. I worked full time and went to college full time to get my bachelors and so did most people. Also, a decade ago or so you pretty much paid cash for a car, and most people my age drove used. Now it's pretty much standard for a 23 year old to go out and lease or borrow money on a car. The trend in clothing has changed also. 10 years ago, $2500 purses were almost unheard of. Now every corporate working woman is carrying one, regardless if they're only making $36k a year. Same with the housing, people nowadays buy the most they can get approved for......It's the finance everything generation and walk along the edge of the cliff. Now when so many have lost their overpaying jobs, they then lost everything else because they have no savings and weren't living within their means.
I think real unemployment is darn close to 20% here in the U.S. when you also include underemployment and the same job paying considerably less. Well that's now effecting 35-40% of people, because most households (under 47) are two person households, so if 1 loses their job it negatively effects both........
Yes, a lot of truths there, I remember 30 yrs ago we used to say that all Government jobs were in actuality "hidden unemployment" add that to the figures along with 40-45 % of the eligible population not paying income tax and the recipe just gets more volatile, the students walking out of the Harvard economics class is a prime example of the misguided attitudes of the younger set today, imagine a parent struggling to put their kid through Harvard, ?60k per year and the kid skips class to join the "occupy" group...disgusting lack of respect from our future "leaders".
On subject and relevent I believe, copying a reply to an email adressed to the chief superintendent of 1 x 85m and (due to launch in 2012) 1 x 145m motor yachts:
I can only speak from the employers point of view.
As legal and regulatory costs have gone through the roof in the USA, we have done what we must do to survive. In my case I opened a Philippines office where I now employ over 100 people taking money from the US economy and giving it to theirs.
Meanwhile, we terminated much middle management in the USA and reduced salary, benefits and commissions for those left in the USA. We also closed a Denver CO office largely due to the intense regulatory requirements of having an additional office.
With the unemployment rate high in the USA, competition is high for even the mediocre jobs that we offer.
These changes have given us at least the extra half million we need each year to spend on frivolous lawsuits, runaway regulation and rising taxes.
I figure this is what the American people want because they keep voting in the politicians who grow our government.
And ... Yes ... My income is rising,
The USA is doomed.
How in the world do you square that statement with
That completely validates the OWS position.
I guess NYC knows what the income was before ???
No, only that most salaries have gone down or disappeared completely. Any increase in income is a good thing, not news most workers get.
He's the owner, he's got his butt on the line as well as his time and money, his income should rise. What's he's saying is the cost of doing business with BS lawsuits, BS regulations, and BS fee's have caused him to move jobs elsewhere and would cause anyone of sane mind to move jobs elsewhere. Over-taxing businesses just causes businesses to leave. Businesses don't usually mind paying fair taxes, but when government gets greedy, they just get out of government.
Let me ask you an honest question NYCAP. If NY state increased their state income tax so that it was 30% higher than NJ income tax all of a sudden, and NJ was 30 minutes away from where you live. Would you not move to NJ so you weren't paying 30% more in taxes. You would move in a NY minute and so would most people and they commute from NJ to NY everyday for work. It's no different than businesses.
Most workers make what they should make and who says they're "entitled" to an increase in pay. If the job didn't pay enough the worker would not stay in the job, nor would the company be able to hire another person to fill that job.
Here's what you fail to understand. If that worker wants to make what the owner of the company is making. That worker should then take all of the risk, put his families future on the line and possible income for the rest of his life (keep in mind MOST businesses fail), raise the capital to start the business and possibly carry it for years, and then open his own company. I personally know of a lot of people that lost their life savings and are in debt for the rest of their lives, trying to open a business and make it profitable, only to do their best and fail.
Actually, I would not move to NJ or anyplace else for lower taxes. I like NY. I like the people. I support my neighbors even if it costs me money. I live and find a way to survive where I do because it's my home. I'd rather sink with my neighbors than survive at their peril. It's called loyalty. As far as business owners taking risks, do you not think employees take risks. They often work for less than they need to survive at the whim of their employers. They can lose everything tomorrow in a day. They are more often than not the last ones to know when the rug is going to be pulled out from under them. Business owners know when things are going south and have a chance to prepare. Business owners take calculated risks in the hope of earning great rewards. Employees have no hope of getting big rewards unless they hit the lottery. It's all relative. If an employer makes money he has a moral obligation to share that good fortune with those who made it possible for him to profit. He has a moral obligation to support his country and his neighbors. Of course though business only cares about legal obligations. Hence the animosity felt by those condemning big business. As for taxes, regulations and law suits, Deal with it. That's always been the price of going for the big rewards. Business is a gamble, but a calculated one. It's why the boss makes the big bucks. I just don't believe in these bosses who take theirs off the top.
The OWS movement... a generation of kids who played sports where everybody got a trophy just for paticipating.
A decision made by their parents who wanted them to get everything for nothing. Finally they are taking control of their own destiny. Hopefully they do a better job with the world than their parents did. I recently heard them compared to the radicals of the 60's, supposedly as an insult. Of course those dirty hippies and radicals brought an end to segregation, an end to a war, environmental awareness, the vote for 18 year olds, women's rights and amazing advances through the space program as well as bringing down a corrupt president. Many are now our legislators and leaders. Hopefully this group won't name their kids sunshine and flower though, and they have taken down some dictators already. Youth is very powerful, not to be underestimated or dismissed. As the song goes "get out of the new road if you can't lend a hand for the times they are a changin' "
Now, I am not going to suggest I know who should be running which country, certainly not the USA. There are too many facts I am not aware of.
Like Perry, what do I know?
Or that Italian bung bunga playboy?
Or any of the local ladies and gents.
Years ago, in my twenties, I had a large poster of a baseball player pinned to the inside of the toilet door, with a DETERMINED look on his face, bat in hand! He would have been maybe 10 y.o and the ball was wizzing toward his head.
Underneath was a word in bold:
I started my day, ofcourse, in this room.
When there is a true crisis, and we ALL are in one at this time in varying degrees, then it takes individuals with knowledge, experience, ability, and most of all the COURAGE, to lead and then others will follow.
Trouble is, where are these leaders?
Any generation will do.
Last time round it was an aged cripple who saved the US and probably most of the free generations since.
I am an employer. My business has shrunk for 3 years in a row to the degree where the ONLY people involved making anything are the last of my loyal staff.
Will my business last?
But not for my sons to take over.
What would matter is how sad and wasteful would it be for all those souls lost and dollars too, just to see another “Great War” that had to be fought.
So much for my favourite pastime, Yacht Forums, (beside actual boating) to be turned into politics!
Let’s move on YF.
The sky WILL NOT FALL.
The new generations will find the leaders and the COURAGE.
Employees have nothing more invested in their job than their time. They do not have their life savings invested in their job, nor any loyalty anymore. Most employees will jump ship and switch jobs if someone else offers them 5% more pay. The business owner is the one taking the risk. If a customer doesn't pay me, I still pay my employees for that job, so I'm the one sitting there eating wood and taking the risk, and that money comes directly out of money I eat with. If an employee does a very good job then in most cases they will get promoted and more pay. I have a small business and pay my employees very well, but they have nothing vested. They could do what I do and make what I make if they have the same eye for detail and want to invest their money in schooling, Captain's license, personality, tools, vehicle, and capital, yet they don't and that is precisely why they make what I make and they make what they make. I bear all of the risk, they are doing a job for me with the materials I bought, the tools I bought, and everything else. I started out in this business working for another Captain that owned a yacht management business. I put in my time, paid my dues, and went out on my own after several years. The opportunity is there (in any industry), but you have to put your life on the line and go out there and do it.
The problem is with all of these people, they expect everything handed to them, they don't want to get their hands dirty and work for it.
There's nothing wrong with being the boss and there's nothing wrong with making money. Some of us are geared for it and some of us aren't. I couldn't imagine working for someone else and my wife couldn't imagine running a business. That's what the entrepreneurial spirit is all about and it's what makes this country great. We just can't lose sight of the fact that we are all invested in our jobs. When the last dollar goes out it's gone whether from your pocket or your employee's. And god help the small business person. He's in much the same shape as the average Joe. In fact he is the average Joe. But as I pointed out to someone recently, when a rich man loses everything he ends up living in a house like mine. When I lose everything I'll be living under a bridge. It's understandable but despicable when those in the ivory towers feel they have no obligation to their neighbor. Those of us a little lower on the food chain who deal with our neighbors every day need to care about them more. Maybe we don't take a vacation this year so that Joe can keep his job and feed his family. I don't see anybody protesting the neighborhood deli or the corner restaurant. They're upset with the Wall Street honchos, the BP executives, the banks. The ones who say 'I can make 5 cents more on a widget if I take the job away from my neighbor. Let me enjoy living in Greenwich, but send my money to China.'
Those big corporations are owned by millions of Americans (stockholders), most of them middle class with their IRA's and so forth. They're publically traded comnpanies that millions of Americans own a small piece of. The CEO is simply an employee of the Corporation, he/she does not own the corporation and can lose his/her job just like anyone if the shareholders vote him/her out. So by attacking big corporations, you're attacking millions of Americans that own it.
Here is a great article by the Denver Post.
Read more: Rosen: Prosperity isn't an entitlement - The Denver Post Rosen: Prosperity isn't an entitlement - The Denver Post