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The Perfect Yacht ?

Discussion in 'Popular Yacht Topics' started by Crewagency, Dec 18, 2004.

  1. Crewagency

    Crewagency Senior Member

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    What is the perfect yacht ?

    There are so many different yachts in the market and surely every owner has his own ideas but often this ideas are not possible to set them in classification
    or will make problems under sailing.

    In this forum, there are very experienced designers, captains, crews and technicians. Why not talk about a YACHTFORUMS-YACHT all together ?

    Observing the market and currently new build projects, I think about a 40-50m
    design.

    Every Step below has to win the Voting through the forums members :

    Step 1 the design ( Voting )
    Step 2 the Propulsion ( Voting )
    Step 3 the Technical Installations
    Step 4 the GA Plan ( Voting )
    Step 5 the interior ( Voting )

    Step 7 the complete Specification
    Step 8 .....the virtual launch with Carl throwing the champain bottle
    Step 9 start the advertising campaign in members own websites
    Spep 10 looking for an owner who is looking for a perfect yacht.


    It must be a yacht for Private Use and also for the charter market
    It must be outstanding and cost effective
    It must to be operated with few Crew
    It must be a long range yacht
    ......
    ......

    It is on Carl, if this is possible because it is much work.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2004
  2. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    Telepathy

    Alex, we've been thinking about novel ideas at the same time!
    Have a look at my new technical thread "a new approach"!

    Both ideas go in the same direction; yours is a far more general approach, mine is more technical.

    OK, here I go with some ideas on my "perfect yacht":
    - 30M is enough
    - Lars' design
    - powercat (of course) for well-known and accepted reasons
    - no crew or very limited crew for autonomy and privacy (sorry guys)
    - integrated and novel power generation
    - novel propulsion system (electric or hydraulic)
    - master stateroom on main deck (I don't live in the basement at home!)
    - 2 or max 3 guest stateroom (a crowded yacht is a nightmare)
    - practical, easy living and understated interior (hardwood flooring, loose
  3. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    I think this is a great idea! Ironically, this discussion has been taking place behind the scenes. I have to agree with Luc on what he's proposing. I think this is a segment of the market that has great potential. I'd like Lars to participate in the discussion, but he will be out of town for the holidays. All the better, as the technical specifications should be contemplated first, and the exterior design last.

    ...form follows function!
  4. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    This post was initally (and still is) the first of a new thread I started on the "technical discussions" page. But I think that it's a part of the project "the perfect yacht". So I dragged over here!

    A new approach

    After the "total energy" and "diesel electric" threads I would like to broaden the brainstorming about the generation and the use of power on board yachts or pleasure craft.
    Let's face it quite candidly, yachts-boats-pleasure craft or whatever you name it, are power-hungry toys with not much "usefull" applications other than the joy and the fun of the owner of the toy.
    In view of global economic parameters, present and future, it may be a usefull exercice to think about how to build more economic and environment-friendly "toys".
    Various contributions have been made in the foregone threads. The focused interest on this platform by people from all horizons, with varying training and professional occupations makes the "Yachtforums" an ideal think-tank for this kind of blank-sheet-of-paper approach.

    So, let's think with a child's imagination and with unobstructed minds about such topics as:
    - how can the necessary power be generated onboard yachts?
    - how can it be distributed?
    - where and when do we need power and how much?
    - what technology is available today, ready for use onboard or to be adapted?
    - imagine new techniques to generate power.
    - which combinations may be of interest?

    - is power used in optimum format today?
    - where can changes be made?
    - etc. etc.
  5. Crewagency

    Crewagency Senior Member

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    I can Agree

    I agree.
    But i think most new owners will look for above 30m that shows the future market.
    I think a nice cat with Diesel electric JET propulsion. ( you know what i mean )
    3 VIP guest staterooms ( one of them owners ) should be converted easy to 6 Guestrooms for charter ? We dont have many charter yachts for 12 pax in the market in this lenght.
    maybe a big sofa in every Cabin is the additional double bed in the Charter week.
    A variable Wall is a must with VIP HIS and HERS bath.
    Also the double bed should be converted easy to a twin bed.
    Sure that all cabins have to got seaviews
    ( 3 decks )
    Main deck : Salon, Galley and Dining Area ?
    Upper deck : 3 VIP Cabins ( 6 Guest cabins ) ?
    Sundeck : with captains cabin and Bridge ?

    Crew near the engines.

    What do you think about the hydraulic bathing platform like the wavepiercer ?
    ( if possible : this platform is directly the converted main tender ?? )

    I will try to show you what i mean with some easy drawings Lars :) will do the rest)

    Let us begin i think that will work !!
  6. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    Got one from Lars

    Some time ago I was playing around with Lars on a 30M cat.
    I think he will not object to me showing it here.
    It fits my description above (of course)
    The name "Kite Cat" stems from the idea to have a kite as traction-power for passages with the (trade)winds.

    Attached Files:

  7. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Before we get too far ahead on this subject, careful consideration must be given to the market. It's not enough to propose and design a new build, but securing resources, such as funding and an experienced yard are an important part of the equation as well.

    Case in point... there is an experienced builder that has produced a yacht possessing many of the attributes previously stipulated. John Winter's "Pacific Harmony" for example is a catamaran that meets many of the protocals set forth. Launched over a year ago, they have yet to find a buyer for this boat, yet it has been continously promoted by brokers in various publications. (there is a YachtForums feature story on it as well).

    Possibly there is a lack of acceptance in the "yacht-end" of the market, because few yacht builders are producing catamarans. This would in-turn, impact the popularity and education of the market. The only logical reason I can conjure up as to why Pacific Harmony has NOT been sold by now... would be "price-point". In this price range, there are *many* other yachts to choose from, offering pedigree and luxurious accommodations, which are very important factors to new buyers.

    I've been onboard Pacific Harmony and it is truly an outstanding yacht. We would be hard pressed, collectively, to do a better job. Just something to think about... :)

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  8. alloyed2sea

    alloyed2sea Moderator

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    Big Easy?

    Your best friend's yacht. :D
    No maintenance, taxes, slip fees, fuel bills, upgrades, insurance, captain & crew salaries, etc., etc.
    Do I get a prize now? :rolleyes:
  9. Crewagency

    Crewagency Senior Member

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    Pacific Harmony

    Already in mid of 2003 i got the price of 4.5 Million Dollar US (5 % Broker fee included ) and now 1.5 years later you have to pay 4.95 ???

    I think our ( YachtforumsYacht ) Project is only for fun and should show what is possible today in Design, Propulsion, Technical innovations etc.

    We dont have to think about money in the beginning.
  10. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    Hmmmm

    I have edited my message to include a reflexion on pricing.


    To the price-tag: yards should not tend to be in line with the "market" but with their cost + margin.
    If you build in a low cost environment your client wants to see this reflected in your selling price!
    People willing (and able) to spend this kind of money for a toy are quite aware of worldwide pricing (otherwise they would'nt have 5M to spend on a boat!)
    A good example of this cost+ policy is the very agressive pricing from the Chinese yard Kingship.
    Edited part: I make a parrallel between pricing of yachts as compared to property here in the South of France; whereby the brokers drive up the seller's expectations by upping the "potential" selling price in order to secure the exclusive sales mandate. :eek:
    I know similar actions are quite normal in yachting, which explains why.

    To Alex: I agree; let's just play around with any idea that comes to anybody's mind; just for fun.
    If anything more comes out of this, all the better.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2004
  11. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    How about this??

    In this month's Boat International I noticed "Pacific Harmony" built by Winter yachts in NZ, listed by C&N.
    Fraser Yachts shows an identic cat "Seaquest" built by Pachoud - NZ.
    :) :) :) :) :) :)
    Let's now go back to this initial subject "The Perfect Yacht", shall we?
  12. Stephen

    Stephen New Member

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    The Perfect Yacht - Found

    This is the first time I've read this thread so excuse me if we're going over old territory.

    The wavepiercing yacht you describe sounds a lot like a concept yacht I designed some time ago and haven't published yet. The Rhino renderings are not to my liking yet and the model was my first using Rhino so don't be too harsh on me.

    The design includes a lowering swim platform which doubles as the tender stowage. The platform lowers so the tender can float free. The fibreglass tender stowage lid stays in situ and acts as a sun screen while the swim platform is in use.

    Check out the design at my web site (some of it is still under construction) at http://www.amb.iinet.net.au - note: follow the SMDG link on the left side and view the Montego 102.

    Stephen.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2005
  13. newbee

    newbee New Member

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    Stephen,

    Montego 102 Design looks great:)
  14. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    YachtForums Dreamyacht 2005..?

    The perfect yacht is maybe impossible to get as we have all different ideas on how to use it, but we could call it the YachtForums Dreamyacht 2005?

    Anyway, I have been looking through the initial ideas and digged deep into my files trying to find something to go from. To start with I think we should not look for too inventive ideas, as they always take much longer to get acceptance for. My approach is rather to use what we have learned during decades of yachting, what is important, what is working and what is not.

    My first entry is a yacht I designed in the mid 90:s after having lived onboard a Moonen 85 for a couple of years. This yacht is a little larger and have all the things I found could be improved on the Moonen. She is 100 feet but can still be owner operated if you like. But with two crew cabins and a crew mess, the choice is open and allows for charter as well. The owners cabin has here got an optional office and the two main guest cabins could have one bed movable to arrange a double bed. There is also a foldable bunkbed in each.

    The raised wheelhouse has a dinette and observation area and above is a fully fitted flybridge. The boat deck has a dining area that converts as a sunbed and there is a pantry with barbeque.

    The main deck has a formal dining room, a galley in the gravity center, and a large salon with a smaller breakfast and game table. Aft deck has another table and there is one for the crew on fore deck as well. I have a total specification, but stop here with saying this yacht has an economical cruising speed of 9-10 knots with a transatlantic range.

    Well, no big surprise, but in my opinion this is the perfect entry level for people looking for a dreamyacht with superyacht quality and I think that many would think twice before going up in size.

    This size of long range yachts was built by many shipyards before, but not today and I think this is a good opportunity to explore what can be done in Taiwan and mainland China who are now venturing into yacht construction.

    /Lars

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 23, 2005
  15. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Lars,

    There are many design features about the 30m Medship that I find personally appealing...

    1. Full walk around main deck. (makes docking easy)
    2. Full size windows in the salon & dining areas for unobstructed views.
    3. Full size enclosed bridge, with a 360 degree view (assuming windows are aft)
    4. A large upper aft deck for tender storage, that doubles as a party deck.
    5. A bow with abundant freeboard.

    It's difficult to discern, but the galley looks like it might be closed-off by a wall to the salon. If this wall was lowered to become a counter-top, it would create more of an open floor plan, which adds size to the interior and and creates a interactive ambiance.

    The Med 30 has a very functional lay-out with time proven design elements. A nice boat indeed!
  16. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Yes Carl, it is a nice boat if you like a longe range cruiser. I know that especially in the US you build country kitchen style combined with a dining area which gives a nice ambiance, but my experience from living on a similar boat to this one and making long passages, it is more practical with an enclosed galley. The owners stateroom is connected with the main salon and as such a private area. If the crew was cooking there, it wouldn´t be very nice. I think this yacht is much more of a big yacht in a smaller size. Everything is heavy duty stuff and planned to be used 24/24 also at sea. The stove is faced forward so you don´t get scald if the boat is stopped by a big wave, same as the freeze and fridges, where things are not falling towards the doors...

    The bridge has aft windows each side and in the door, but for docking it is better to be on the flybridge where you can park her easy as a car.. :)
  17. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    That's forward thinking.
  18. Crewagency

    Crewagency Senior Member

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    The perfect Yacht

    Hi all,
    back from Düsseldorf Boat Show now and ready for new ideas.

    I saw so many Yachts on the show but saw nothing new. I feel that all exhibitors are not happy and Yacht sales between 50 and 100 feet are totaly down in Germany in the moment. In some Yachts the Crew cabins are like a casket and also have no storage for clothes. I think we have to think about the people who lives on this PERFECT YACHT first and have to create a design where Owners and Crews can live for a long time. I also saw that the explorer style Yachts come up more and more. A catamaran style Yacht is a good idea because we have enought space a smaller fuel consumption and a higher range with more cruising speed.
    Many owners want to charter but i think you will not find a berth ( 2-3 ) in the main season for a Cat Yacht.
    Also owners wants to reduce the crew on the next boat.
    So we have to think about a Yacht that is easy to maintain and to handle with a small crew.
    Reading through this thread i think it is very difficult to create our Dream Yacht here.
    So lets us fix some details in a voting about lenght,style,range,speed.
    I would suggest a 40m format. ( 33m as Cat )
  19. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I agree with Alex, it will not be easy to create the perfect yacht here, as we will always have different ideas. As a wild card I would like to add a yacht which I consider almost perfect, the 40 m Perini Navi Lady Lauren, ex Thesis. There you have most of what can dream of and easy handled sails on top of that. She is a real beauty with her unique Perini styling with a raised pilothouse and flybridge. I love this concept... :)

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  20. TRY

    TRY Senior Member

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    ever tried it?

    Hi Lars,
    Hi Alex,

    Between 2 trips I'm updating my forums-reading.
    I think our first decision will have to be power or sail.
    Perini's are very nice yachts (built in Turkey, not Italy) but .....
    Did you ever try to "live" at an angle of 11-12° Lars? Very tiring and quite unpractical under the shower or on the toilet-facilities!

    I have been for a long time now, I still am, and I will continue to favour a powercat.
    33M - which is already a very comfortable size - can still be handled by a coupe, if they're knowledgeable.
    If we take 8M beam, then that's not very much wider than a monohull of 40M, agreed?
    So the berth-problem is a non-problem.

    And I'm still convinced, tests to take place this winter, that one can use a kite for passage-making!

    On page 1 I posted a LM design - "KiteCat" - 30M - still my favourite.

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