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Crime and Safety

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Blue Ghost, Feb 9, 2015.

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  1. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost Member

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    So, as sailors and boats-men of various sorts, we're not likely to book passage on a cruise-ship, but I've been watching a lot of videos and reading stories about crime on ocean liners, and, as an extension, I'm curious how safe some of the people on this forum feel on chartered yachts.

    I'm pretty sure they don't have the issues of ocean liners, different clientele and all, but do you feel safer in certain parts of the world than in others?

    For those of you who've chartered superyachts, do you get a sense of safety on and off ship as you cruise from port to port?
  2. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    I don't know about Cruise Ships, but I for one wouldn't step foot on one if you paid me. I've never chartered a super yacht either, but I'd feel a **** sight safer on a private chartered boat. The crew is better trained, higher paid, and care more about you as an individual than a Cruise Ship employee. As for going port to port...once you get off the boat...you pays yer money and take yer chances.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I think in today's world you must remain aware of the risks surrounding you. It's whether you're passing through a piracy area or pulling to a marina where obviously you have money others might like. There are certainly places I would not go and they change from time to time. There are sites to keep you updated as to the latest crime. Most yachts are not equipped to provide security in high risk areas. If you're going to venture into them, you need to add some things. There are tools for security other than guns, things like light, sound, smoke.
  4. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost Member

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    I've read a lot of horror stories over the last 48 hours. Tourists being held up at St. Lucia, one man being beaten and tossed overboard, another woman that the captain of Disney Magic claims was swept overboard by a wave from deck ten (essentially the promenade), in calm seas no less, to various accounts of sexual assault.

    Again, a yacht is, in theory, a different scenario. If it's your vessel with your family and friends you don't have too much to worry about. But even if you're on a charter vessel, it seems like (as I read on another thread) getting fleeced at an Italian port, or having to ward off boarders while anchored in the Carribean, would keep me Pacific Ocean bound sailor.

    I seem to recall reading an account of a chief of security on board a liner who turned the ship's fire hose on Somali pirates armed with RPGs and Kalishnikovs who attempted to attack a vessel filled with UK passengers.

    *EDIT*
    I also read another account linked via this forum of a yacht that got into an actual gun fight with Somali pirates. I mean, to me that's pretty scary stuff.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I ve read a lot of stuff too... On the Internet of all places, imagine that.

    Seriously, who is going to charter or run charters in third world hell holes like Somalia or Nigeria?it s all about common sense, you want to be safe, you don't go to some places and will eliminate 99.99% of the problems, just like there are cities or neighborhoods you wouldn't live in. Heck I live in Miami and never lock my boat (live aboard). Actually I don't lock my car either...

    On the other hand when we are in Nassau, whether on charter or not, you can bet the doors are locked at night or whenever we leave the boat and we instruct guests not to walk out of the marina once the sun goes down. But we usually only spend one night there and if possible try not to by heading to the exumas right away unless for some reason our guests really insists on spending a night there. I am sure captains run charters around places like st Thomas, Jamaica or other places with security issues take the same basic precautions.

    Cruise ships are a different stories as you essentially face the problems of putting thousands of people together. Statistically there will be a % of crimes....
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I know a few world travelers who are loath to travel outside the U.S. anymore, regardless of the mode of travel. Cruise ships hire all sorts of people from all sorts of places. I'm sure that the main deciding factor is who will work the cheapest. You could face danger from said crew on a ship the size of a city, just like in any city. On a private (charter) yacht you're sailing with a crew selected for their ability to keep guests happy, and they depend on an end of voyage tip. Not much danger from them. When you step off onto a foreign shore, it's the same if you come by mega-yacht as if you stepped out of a Jeep. Choose your destinations with due diligence, and don't send your mind on vacation just because your body is.
  7. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost Member

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    Pascal; sure, there's all kinds of flak and tall tales on the net. I should have said news reports. There a number of lawyers who have links to new sites about safety and security, and those are the majority of the reports I've seen. I guess if you were reading a blog entry then common sense would dictate that you read that with a grain of salt.
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    There are two types of safety concerns. The first is just common crime, from petty theft to robbery. It's a concern everywhere in the world to one degree or another and not limited to the water. Most people lock their homes on land, but then I see many boaters who anchor out and refuse to lock their boats at night or when they go to shore. Dinghies and outboards are stolen because cruisers anchor and leave them in the water. Well, leave your ATV sitting unattended in your front yard at home and it's at high risk to be stolen too. Then people walk alone into areas that lead to theft. Well, I don't know of a city in the world that doesn't have some areas that are unsafe for that. We read about this crime on websites collecting information but in reality a lot less staggering than if we read the recent crime log of our hometown.

    The second safety concern is violent crime against the boat typically in a form of piracy. This is not unlike driving into the wrong neighborhood you don't belong in. There are areas of high rates of piracy that recreational boaters should avoid and if they go into these areas should have a high level of security. Now that's not to say there is no risk elsewhere but the majority occurs in these areas. There are warnings all around of the areas. Most of the victims are commercial ships simply because they are the ones who have to travel through the areas. They continue to add security. But the huge difference is they have a compelling need to go through the area. The pleasure boater does not and should not.
  9. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost Member

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    Interesting. Just reading these forums and cruising through news archives, it just seems like the Atlantic and Indian Oceans are just havens for bad ports of call and piracy and other crime of all forms. Not that there isn't crime in SF, LA, Hawaii and elsewhere, but it seems like most of the crime related news comes out of the Caribbean.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Nowadays I find news reports need to be taken with a grain of salt, no... make that a shaker full of salt... Getting as bad as the common blog... :)

    Yes, some places in the caribean have issues but it s usually mostly petty theft, especially things like dinghies and outboards. You certainly can't compare the situation there with piracy infested parts of the third world.

    As to the pacific coast, I d argue that it isn't as popular as a cruising destination as the bahamas and Caribbean. You just don't have the volume of boats migrating south every winter like you have on the east coast down to th Carib, so statistically the numbers will automatically be higher.

    But again it s all about common sense and picking the right destinations. There are places where you ll never catch me heading to, starting with Mexico, most of Central America, along with Jamaica.
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I believe that is a mis-characterization of the Caribbean. The amount of reported crime there is higher, but the number of boaters there is much higher. Then looking at the reported crime, the vast majority is petty theft. I've argued until exhaustion with people who leave their boats but don't lock their doors because they don't want their doors damaged. Same with those who anchor in remote spots and those who leave their dinghies in the water.

    Now there have been a couple of isolated instances of more serious crime and one does need to be aware of that. One thing we do have is excellent reporting of Caribbean instances. And, in the past, there has been some piracy near Venezuela. I personally would not cruise in that area today and certainly wouldn't cruise to Venezuela. Hopefully that changes in the future.

    As an example of change. We just left the poorest country in Central America, Nicaragua. It had a history of crime and recently a resort on the west coast was built. One of the highlights of our trip. We felt secure the entire time and we felt welcomed. We did take a day trip with a guide to Leon as well, didn't have time to go to Managua. But we looked at recent reports and we saw the change. With all their issues they have reduced crime. Now, if we were cruising this area two years from now, we'd do our homework all again. And we don't leave the boat unlocked, unsecured, and with no one aboard. That combination is risky anywhere.

    I'd suggest everyone read all the available information. Look at dates of incidents. If someone was robbed at gunpoint 5 years ago it might be time to dismiss that or at least lessen it. If someone had their boat anchored and went to shore, leaving it unlocked, and had their money, which was sitting on the table, taken, then unless you intend to do similar, it's probably not a huge concern. On the other hand if there have been several incidents of piracy in the past three years and the government of the near country is in disarray and has no interest at all in curbing the piracy, then I'd probably suggest staying away from there for a while. Cruise the Caribbean however and you'll see marinas and anchorages full of other cruisers. Cruise the Pacific, you'll be one of a very few. In our last five stops, we perhaps have encountered 4 other boats that are cruising. We've cruised 12 hours a couple of times and not seen a single pleasure boat.
  12. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    common sense tells you to play it safe wherever and however you got there....I would be much more worried about getting sick or a serious toothache than the chance of being a crime victim
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You don't bring a knife (or loudspeaker) to a gun fight. Someone armed and with nothing to lose is not going to be stopped by light, smoke, or sound. He's just going to get pissed off and be more apt to use his weapon. If water cannons and having to throw a 30' ladder up on the side of the Maersk Alabama, do you think smoke, light or sound is going to stop an armed pirate? 10- 12 gauge slugs into the bottom of their Panga would've sunk that Panga in a minute or two.
  14. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost Member

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    Not to sound too techno-geeky here, but you may want to read a book called "The E-Bomb". It's about energy based crowd control and weapons' technology. It's pretty interesting stuff. The info is about ten years old now, so there's been some progress since that time. In effect imagine your entire body feeling a very nasty pinch or super-heated, but without scarring or actual damage. A fire hose won't do, but DARPA's latest crowd control tech may be the answer.

    http://www.amazon.com/E-Bomb-Americ...TF8&qid=1423639080&sr=1-1&keywords=The+E+Bomb

    But yeah, if someone's shooting at you either hail tail it out of there or shoot back. Of course I've heard many a police officer say the best way to survive is to cooperate and give up your money. I don't know if that works on the high seas.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, actually I am just going by what the US Navy uses plus the recommendations from the US Coast Guard and MARSEC May 2009 Directive104-6 (Rev 2): “Guidelines for U.S. Vessels operating in High Risk Waters”. While there are no perfect system, there are some combinations that are more effective than traditional methods, especially when combining night vision with these systems.