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Cost of crew and Chartering fees?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Andytk5, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. Andytk5

    Andytk5 New Member

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    Not sure if this is the section for this or not but I am curious to know the costs involved in chartering out an 80's 75' motoryacht Hatteras a month or two during the year. If I have a charter company manage the yacht for that time what are the potential revenues of 2 months of chartering after the crew costs etc... Do they customers usually pay the fuel/food costs? Do many people do this to offset the costs of the yacht?
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    you will offset SOME of the costs, at best...

    brokers take 20%. typically, the charterer pays for expenses (fuel, food, dockage)... i'd guess taht an 80s vintage 70ish boat will charter for 15k a week (plus expenses).

    if you have a full time captain on the boat, then the added crew costs will be for a chef, and ideally a mate although on a 75 footer if the crew is willing to work hard you can get by with a 2 person crew.

    If you have to hire a captain just for the charters you costs will increase by that amount. plus whatever cut the "management company" is going to take... not cheap.

    I dont' think there will be much left after you pay the management company once they take their cut on whatever maintenance and repairs are needed, etc... you may get to a point where the net isn't worth the wear and tear on the boat.

    also, a charter yacht needs a lot of "stuff" you may not need on a private boat, like upgraded linens, galley items, water toys, etc...

    We run charters on the 70 footer i captain, it works out but budget control is an important part of my job; put a management company in the picture and i wonder what would be left...
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I do occasional charters on a 75' Hatteras (was a 65' MY) as Captain for the charters. I am not his full time Captain. Unfortunately we only have 1 stateroom for crew and 2 bunks (3 guest staterooms), so it is a 2 man crew for a charter and is a TON of work if it is an active charter or mechanical issues pop up. If half of the charter wants to go on the tender and half wants to stay, both crew members are totally occuppied and cannot prep food or other things. We just don't have the sleeping quarters for additional crew. You also cannot provide 5 star service because of lack of crew, but can provide 4 star when it comes to food and other things. It gets to be very tough if you're travelling for the day, considering I'm totally occupied and the mate has to cook, as well as assist me when needed and clean the boat when we get in, and then if I have to cook dinner. Timing between destinations has to be perfect where you can get the vessel stuff done, and still have time to cook dinner for the guests. It's a very very fine line. It's also easier if the boat had a full time mate to keep things consistent.

    The owner has basically started chartering fairly recently in order to offset costs, and to keep everything running and being worked since he cannot use the vessel himself due to the economic climate and family restraints. The owner has treated me very well over the years and I treat him very well and go above and beyond with work and so forth. I manage everything and charge just daily captaining fee when I am on the boat, and considering he books the charters through a website he has it takes a lot of screening and planning by me. He generally pays $450-500 a day for both Captain and Mate, so on a week charter $3500 goes to crew expense. Food, dockage and fuel are generally paid for by the charter unless the owner does a sort of local weekend (within 50-75miles each way) and it's worked into the price.

    Charters generally come at different times, so it's difficult to say ok, November and December I am going to charter the vessel and leave the remainder of the year for personal use. You may only have 1 week of charter. Another problem is when chartering, all of the owner's personal items will have to be hidden and you only have so much space for that.

    Chartering will add a little wear and tear, (can add a lot if you have the wrong charter guests on board), and I would say only 1-2% of charter yachts ever make money above expenses. BUT, it will help offset some of the costs of ownership.
  4. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    The charter guests pay for the fuel and food as well as other ancillary expenses that are incurred during their charter. Most charter boats need to work 13 weeks at break even. Above that they make money, less than that and they are only getting a partial offset on their annual expenses.
  5. Andytk5

    Andytk5 New Member

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    Thanks for the insight guys, really appreciate your knowledge and experience in this area.
  6. aeronautic1

    aeronautic1 New Member

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    If you expect to charter during peak time, do not book your boat for personal use during the major holidays in Novmber-December.

    I had an owner who always brought his family for holiday and couldn't understand why his boat wasn't charting.

    BTW- a recent report from Antigua, 80% of the yachts there had no bookings for the holidays. 13 weeks maybe the industry norm for B.E., but if you get 5 weeks, consider yourself lucky.
  7. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    BTW, the only charter boats that make money, the owner does not get to use it on the prime dates for using the yacht. If you want it to make money, you have to consider it as a piece of business equipment. Your use will be last minute and on unoccupied times, which really, the crew needs to maintain the vessel and get rest. If you want to use the boat for the 5 prime weeks of the year, you will probably be better off not chartering at all due to the extra expenses and wear and tear on the boat.
  8. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    As I understand it, not many boats managed to break even last year. I'm also seeing a lot of deferred maintenance and refit schedules being moved back with greatly reduced scopes. I think that if the economy doesn't pick up this year, a lot of the 10 year old boats are going to the scrapper. The older Browards are cheap as chips these days. A lot of the stuff 130 and smaller built in the last 5 year building craze will be in "project" condition. The big stuff for the ultrawealthy, that's still looking fine.
  9. Andytk5

    Andytk5 New Member

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    Thanks guys, I was just curious if that was even an option. Looks like more trouble than its worth. I don't see that economy picking up so quickly like everyone thinks. A consumer economy doesn't turn around without people going back to work and that isn't happening yet. Plus the commercial and prime RE markets..
  10. triggerfish23

    triggerfish23 New Member

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    We run our own charter company in the PNW aboard our 72' Hatt and everything that I have heard is that you can offset some costs, but not a lot unless you are running the boat yourself. As you (and some others) mentioned, we aren't in the best state of economy to start a charter endeavor.

    I'm not sure if you were planning on having a crew aboard anyway, but that is something to take into account too. If you're already paying the overhead, it won't be something that will be "additional" just for chartering.

    We enjoy it immensely, but it really seems to depend on what you're trying to get out of it. Good luck no matter what your decision is.
  11. Capt MAP

    Capt MAP New Member

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    I am the owner of a completely refurbished 1990 70 Hatteras Cockpit motor yacht. All new stainless and granite galley with cherry cabinetry. Marble and onyx baths, all new cherry panneling throughout . All systems repaired or replaced. She shows like a new yacht. I would like to bring her on her own bottom to BVI. Would like to charter her about 4-6 weeks per year. Does anyone know some of the charter costs? Ie Captain, mate, insurance etc
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Insurance is usually a little higher but most policies allow limited chartering ( up to 30 days a year for instance) so there may not be extra costs there

    Chartering is all about the crew, you can have the best boat with the nicest marble and veneers but if the crew doesn't "get it", it s not going to work out... Both the captain and mate need the right attitude and be flexible since on a 70 footer you re not going to have room for a 3 person crew which would be ideal.

    If you re not going to have a full time crew, your challenge will be to have the crew available when needed. Brokers like to know who will be taking care of their guests and having different crew make them worry...

    Extra costs will be making sure the boat is really charter ready with good linens and galley stuff. As to crew cost, figure $500 to $600 a day plus tip
  13. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    Are you looking at a full time captain and mate? Or just to run the charter trips?

    If full time you are looking at $60 - $75,000 a year for the captain/engineer and $25 - $35,000+ for a mate/stew/chef. Daily rate would be $200 - $300 for the captain/engineer and $125 - $175 for a mate/stew/chef.

    Other costs would be advertising and added toys on the boat to attract charters.

    Was any mechanical, electrical, electronics, A/V work done to the boat during the refit, or was it all cosmetic?
  14. floatingboater

    floatingboater New Member

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    I know this is an older thread, but I had a similar question. Are there certain brokers that are recommended here? My boat is in Florida, and a friend there recommended this group but I would love a second opinion.

    Thanks a ton! :D
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    One thing I would add. It's not just today's economy impacting chartering. The boom years are also impacting it. Lots of boat purchasers were sold on the idea of buying one and chartering it to offset costs. Some even bought expecting profits. The result is an excess of charter boats available. Also many of those are much newer. A lot of owners sold on the idea they could own a yacht for very little as chartering would pay the way. I know some who were led to believe they'd be able to charter them 20 or more weeks, maybe up to 26, and, in they're being charters 4-8 weeks. Some of the older boats not being chartered at all.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Those rates are way off, $75k a year for Captain and $35k a year for a mate to start. A good Captain starts at $350 per day or more. Mate 1/2 of what the Captain is getting.
  17. aeronautic1

    aeronautic1 New Member

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    For the size boat this thread covers. However I have a three tier fee schedule based on length of vessel.

    40-69 $300 per day
    70-99 $400 per day
    >100 $500 per day
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't discount for the smaller boats. You get a heck of a lot more beat up (physically) running a 40-60' for a day at cruise than you do running a 70-99' for example.

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