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$2.00 Gas ?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by GordMay, Mar 30, 2004.

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  1. GordMay

    GordMay New Member

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    From “Trade Only Today” Magazine - by Lindsey Savin

    "Get used to $2 marina gasoline, says expert.

    With fuel prices at many marinas already exceeding $2 per gallon, an industry expert says boaters can expect to pay top dollar to fill up through the busy summer months.

    “We’re reaching unprecedented areas,” Kevin Little of Onyx-Mansfield Energy Services in Gainesville, Ga., said in a telephone interview this morning. “These are the highest prices we’ve seen in a long time.”

    Onyx-Mansfield administers the fuel program of the Marina Operators Association of America. It also supplies several major marina customers around the United States, including the Flagship and Westrec chains, and Fort Lauderdale’s Bahia Mar.

    Adjusted for inflation, Little says, fuel costs today are “on par” with those of the oil embargoes of the 1970s. “They are extremely high; higher than we’ve seen in recent years,” he says.

    Little says the $1.75 to $1.80 per gallon prices gasoline stations are charging motorists today are extremely high for this time of year. Marinas typically mark prices up roughly 35 percent on the docks, he says, so most already are charging somewhere in the $2 range.

    Little sees no sign of dramatic improvement any time soon. In fact, he says, at some point during the summer, “It wouldn’t surprise me to see prices at marinas approach the $3-per-gallon mark.”

    Prices from suppliers can vary from day to day based on a variety of unpredictable circumstances, says Little. “It is a commodity-driven pricing structure, based on supply and demand,” he points out.

    On average, Little says prices can fluctuate between 2 and 5 cents per gallon on a given day. Therefore, “Marinas need to be very conscious during the coming season of when they buy during the week,” he adds."
  2. John B

    John B Senior Member

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    OPEC just announced a cut in output by 1 million barrels a day. I don't hink prices will be coming down any time soon.

    Then again I'm not looking for a sailboat either. After all, at cruise speed my boat gets over 3 gallons to the mile - and a nautical mile at that.

    Fuel docks love it when you take on a thousand or more gallons of diesel at a time.

    Would be great if it were cheaper, but that's not likely to happen any time soon.
  3. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    And we just might be headed past $2.00 a gallon...

    I read a story recently that China, the 2nd largest importer of crude oil in the world, with over 2 Billion people, has just finished the construction of their first auto manufacturing plant that will be producing one million cars a year.

    With a world population growing at an exponential rate and the constant unrest in the middle east, we've probably enjoyed the last of reasonably priced fuel. That being said, for many boaters (especially large yacht owners), the price of fuel is the least of their costs.

    But, you only live once. And hey, afterall... China's talking about starting an economic war with the United States that could topple our finanical markets. Think it couldn't happen? Do some research! They're poised to do just that!

    Gas prices may be the least of our worries in the years to come.:(
  4. firstmate_pete

    firstmate_pete New Member

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    im just glad i am a sailor, and don't have to pay skyhigh gas prices :)
  5. Capt. G

    Capt. G New Member

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    Pay Less for Fuel

    For vessels taking on 500 plus gallons of diesel I found a great service that operates worldwide.

    My friend left San Digeo for the Med and has saved thousands of dollars so far.

    For more info go to...

    http://www.globalyachtfuel.com

    Regards Graham
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2004
  6. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Great info Graham! Thank for posting.

    Since this thread was originally posted, I've gathered a little more info on China and how their demands on resources may effect prices.

    Just on energy alone, take a look at these China-related numbers...

    1. In 1993, China became a net oil importer, like the U.S.
    2. More than half of China's provinces are facing electricity shortages.
    3. China is the 2nd largest energy buyer in the world, after the U.S.
    4. China will demand 290 million metric tons of oil by the end of 2004.
    5. China's oil demand is expected to double by 2010.
    6. China's electricity demand has already doubled and is expected to quadruple by 2020.
    7. Last year, China drove 35% of global oil demand.

    China has more refrigerators, mobile phones, TV's and motorcycles than the United States. They need lots of juice to power all that technology and they are just getting started.

    In the U.S., we burn through 22 million barrels of oil per day. Asia - with a population around 10 times larger than the U.S. - still "only" burns 19 million barrels of oil per day.

    Chinese oil demand has already doubled what it was just 7 years ago. So is Japan's. An economist living in Hong Kong predicts it will double again over the next 10 years.

    Who knows what will happen with oil prices, or commodities for that matter, which are growing scarce by a world population explosion. For what it's worth, I'm vested in several energy and raw materials stocks and not looking to sell them anytime soon.

    My guess is $2.00 gas prices are here to stay. :(

    Carl
  7. Capt. G

    Capt. G New Member

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    Carl:

    Does not look too good for power boaters' pocket books!

    Maybe this should be in another thread... but I would like to know if you can gain "mileage" by removing the turbo charger(s) and adjusting/replacing the injector tips.

    I have a full displacement vessel and do not need the extra power that I have available with the turbo charged engines.

    Graham
  8. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    I recently overheard a conversation where someone stated that turbochargers increase gas mileage (this was auto related), however logic would dictate that in order to make more power, you need more fuel.

    Removing your turbos may be costly, i.e., reconfiguring manifolds, exhaust systems and re-jetting or re-calibrating fuel delivery. The only thing that comes to mind in this scenario is... power can save you in a multitude of situations.

    Graham, if you post this question under the technical forum, maybe someone can share some wisdom. I know there's a few diesel mechanics that follow the threads there. Good question!

    Carl
  9. John B

    John B Senior Member

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    There is a very easy way to save fuel on a power boat - throttle back.

    A displacement hull should be fairly fuel efficient to begin with?

    Carl is right, eliminating turbos would be a very costly undertaking. I believe in many applications for a given amount of horsepower forced induction will be more fuel efficient. A turbo requires much less power to drive than a belt driven supercharger - turbo wins hands down for a given power level and boost required to achieve it, since parasitic loss of HP to drive the supercharger is significant.

    On a forced induction application the higher levels of boost are where more fuel is required. Depending upon your application, if you are not spooling up the turbo(s) and creating boost, fuel efficiency will be no different than a normally aspirated application. Some applications also have sequential turbos (not sure about diesels in boats) in which case again, keeping the RPM's below the point the secong turbo kicks in will save fuel.

    Just for kicks, I would check out fuel consumption (GPH) on a normally aspirated engine in your target HP range vs. your turbo application before I'd seriously consider changing anything. If I had to hazard a gues, the turbo will be more fuel efficient for the given HP.

    John - aka poster child for fuel inefficiency :eek:
  10. Capt. G

    Capt. G New Member

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    Thanks for the information John!

    I actually only use one engine at a time and at 1200 rpm running at 7.5 knots so the turbo is not really doing anything.

    The engine is a Volvo TMD120A rated at 260hp

    I am trying to improve the boats range by running below hull speed on one engine.

    But still I am burning 1.2 gallon per mile and I have no space for additional fuel tanks.

    Any ideas would be appreciated.

    Graham
  11. John B

    John B Senior Member

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    I think the cat you're trying to skin is more around the boat itself rather than its powerplant.
  12. Top Hat

    Top Hat New Member

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    2.00$ I wish..

    Here in the wonderfull state of California we pay 3.00$ for a gallon of gas and 2.45$ for red diesel,how I wish I could fuel my Hatteras for less,seems like the east coast is getting a much better deal.

    Tophat
  13. Capt. G

    Capt. G New Member

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    Tophat:

    You can buy fuel for less money in California by contacting
    http://www.globalyachtfuel.com

    They will tell you which fuel dock to use and invoice you later.

    Graham
  14. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Prices for fuel in South Florida (auto gas stations) are hovering just above $2.00 a gallon, while the typically higher prices at marinas and fuel docks are upwards of $3.00 a gallon now. I haven't fueled up at a waterway gas dock in awhile, so I my figures might be off. We have a fuel barge come to us for diesel and the sportboat is fueled on the trailer at a close-by Hess station. Last time we filled up with the barge, if I remember correctly, it was around $1.30 a gallon, but this was a while ago. It is probably higher now. :(
  15. whadley

    whadley New Member

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    Fuel Prices

    I also am in South Florida. Our local marinas are at $2.59-$2.69 per gallon for regular gas. I was in Harbor Island (Eleuthera) last week and we paid $2.60 for diesel and $4.00 for gas!!!
    I don't see it getting better in the future.
  16. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    I hadn't noticed this fuel price discussion when I joined the list a few days ago. Thought this posting would be applicable to this thread.
  17. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    ...an excerpt from another forum by designer Tad Roberts..


    A few years ago the average yearly use for Hinckley Picnic Boats was about 30 hours. So fuel use, in the overall scheme of things, made no difference. And I agree with Mr. Fexas that you can make a boat quite a bit wider without things getting out of hand. But he includes a caveat, "if weight is kept in check", this never happens! Boats are wider, higher, with more layers and levels and WEIGHT than ever before.

    The Fexas Midnight Lace 44 weights about 16-20,000 pounds, power is twin 220 HP GM 8.2's, she will reportedly cruise at 21 knots burning 14gph. That's not bad. A new Cruisers 45 weights close to 40,000 pounds, has twin 480 HP Volvos, and burns 34gph for 21 knots. Now at $1.25 a gallon that may be possible, but at $5-6.00 a gallon it would be a fair sized proposition.
  18. alloyed2sea

    alloyed2sea Moderator

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    YIKES!

    $3.25/gal in Annapolis right now.
    Any higher and nobody votes for W. :rolleyes:
  19. TIM

    TIM New Member

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    Fuel Prices

    You Guys have nothing to worry about,

    Over here we are paying about $4.50 g/US or €.95 per L for Gas and about €.85 L for Diesel.

    You can buy duty free diesel fuel for boats here @ €.55 L or $2.50 g/US


    Pitty I am running 2 outboards :eek:
  20. marcusra

    marcusra New Member

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    Lucky fellows!! US must be the perfect country to use cars and boats in
    You say $3/ gallon of Gas and $2.45 Diesel

    Because we in the rest of the world uses SI-units in this case "Liters"
    (1 gallon = 3,7854 liters) I had to turn some numbers... but Those are Swedish
    fuel prices:

    Diesel "White" (usual) 4.2 $/gallon

    Diesel "Green" (only sold to ships whit a charter-buissnes etc. otherwise ilegal!!)
    2.1 $/gallon

    Gas: 5 to 5.6 $/gallon (depending on octaine-contents 95-98)



    In the case of our gas-price the fact is that 70% of the price is just TAXes!!!!!!

    Welcome to Sweden......NO I don't think so!!!! Parhaps I come to US instead!!
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