[brian eiland]

Just saw this program ("Crude": 8-10 AM EST Feb 22) and it was simply the most well-done, informative and attention-grabbing program I've seen related to peak oil concerns. This program should be endorsed and viewed by every single member of this site.

"An Inconvenient Truth" this isn't. It's also not "Lost Worlds" or some other pompous History Channel program. It was concise, stuck to facts and experts and the production values were excellent. Two hours of enthralling oil and climate-related topicality.

See it. Spread it. It's important stuff.

Crude, The History Channel:
http://www.history.com/shows.do?epis...&action=detail

....other comments at Peak Oil Review
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic35978.html



An Inconvenient Truth", the climate change documentary that's been promoted by Nobel laureate Al Gore, has received mixed reviews from the global audience.

Regardless of whether or not you've seen the "Gore movie" or what you're already inclined to believe about oil and climate related issues, I highly recommend Crude: a new two-hour documentary that was aired earlier today on The History Channel. This is an unequivocally rave review. Crude scores 11 on a scale of 1 to 10.

I don't see anything new in terms of oil and climate related issues and concerns, but the program explains the science (much of it recent) behind terms like "peak oil", "greenhouse climate" and "global warming" in the most engaging way I've seen to date.

It's a landmark in terms of scientific narration and computer generated imagery and animation. From the way that oil was created in the age of the dinosaurs, through the emergence of the modern oil industry in Pennsylvania, to the game-changing discoveries in the Middle East and up to the present day, it puts the whole story together in the most viewer friendly and captivating style yet.

[AMG]

"Crude" and "The Inconvenient Truth" and "The Great Global Warming Swindle" are all pretty convincing productions and at the same time contradictory towards each other and towards the scientific debate.

I have spent about 2.000 hours over the last year to learn a little more on the CO2 issue and the more I learn, the less certain I am on what is going on. But in general, I think the sun has much more to do with climate change, than the CO2 has.

CO2 is to me taken as a political and economical hostage. This is as far as I go...

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by AMG

"Crude" and "The Inconvenient Truth" and "The Great Global Warming Swindle" are all pretty convincing productions and at the same time contradictory towards each other and towards the scientific debate.

I have spent about 2.000 hours over the last year to learn a little more on the CO2 issue and the more I learn, the less certain I am on what is going on. But in general, I think the sun has much more to do with climate change, than the CO2 has.

CO2 is to me taken as a political and economical hostage. This is as far as I go...

Dear Lars,
Did you watch this particular film "Crude" ?? I just found a Goggle Video of it
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5797240072407639740

Do you doubt at all their explanation of how the oil deposits were formed? It appears to be the most plausable I know of, and that would coordinate with the stagnate 'oceanic anoxia events' recorded in our earth's history, and the lack of polar icecaps at those prehistoric times, and that are the driving engines for ocean circulation.

Maybe just review the last 1/4 of the film and let me know.

I too have been somewhat sceptical of this 'global warming' phenomena, and where it might lead, but I am convinced that the polar icecaps are melting, and I do realize that these are the driving engines for ocean circulation. Without them our oceans go stagnant, and then we are in real trouble.

If you believe in the conservation of energy, etc, we problably have to agree that we do not create carbon nor destroy it. We are not sending it into space so we must be recirculating it...out of the oil deposits, into our atmosphere, and ultimately back into the oceans and ground....the logical loop.

With China and Inda coming on strong with the automobile craze, we will accelerate this situation dramatically.

[brian eiland]

Interestingly this film is an Australian product

Crude - the incredible journey of oil, from its birth deep within our dinosaur-inhabited past, to its ascendancy as the indispensable ingredient of modern life.

Oil is one of the most sought after resources in the world and sweeps into almost every part of our modern lives, yet most people have little idea of the incredible 160 million year journey it has made to reach our gas tanks and plastic bags. What is its history? Where does it come from? When will it run out?

Shooting on locations around the world and using CGI animations to visualize both science and history, Crude helps make sense of the oil-driven world we live in. It connects the dots between geology and economy; between the past, present and future. Crude takes a step back from the day-to-day news to offer a fresh perspective on the amazing fluid that powers our lives.

Crude is directed by Australian filmmaker Richard Smith.

[PropBet]

I caught pieces of it here and there, and subsequently, have set Tivo to record it next time it shows (and remind me to watch it, while paying attention)

[AMG]

Yes Brian, I have seen all the three TV-productions I mentioned, twice. And I have been in touch with a handful of the IPCC scientists behind them. I don´t want to transfer the CO2 debate to YachtForums, just inform that there is a widespread debate going on, like this conference that will take place in New York in a weeks time: http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/newyork08.cfm

[Marmot]

Ah, yes ... the Heartland Institute.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...land_Institute

[AMG]

Well, i am not endorsing the Heartland conference, but I wasn´t expecting Greenpeace to have it either...

[Codger]

Brian, thanks for that. I don't watch television so probably wouldn't have come across that show otherwise.
Much of what is in that presentation is not new but it does tie things together nicely given the time limitations imposed by the medium, and with less pomposity than a few other theories that I've looked at.
Having spent a good deal of my life involved in the oil patch or building for it I've spent many an evening with geologists and even took a course in it just out of interest.
Perhaps as a function of age I don't like waste and have always looked for more efficient ways to get things done. Using oil, or for that matter coal, to generate electricity has long seemed the height of idiocy to me. There are better ways to accomplish that task and as wind, solar and other technologies are finally being developed and utilised properly that whole segment is starting to make more sense.
I'll leave Peak Oil alone since that seems to be tied in to a mind lock. Last time I sat in on a meeting with a few true believers and mentioned Bakken and a few other fields under development they just got ticked off. What the actual reserves are is not really the important issue from my point of view.
Without turning this in to more of an epistle than it already is I'll get to my point. Using non-renewables where unnecessary makes no sense. Using the non-renewables in the ways that are the most efficient and only in those applications where energy density is a requirement is the way to go. Fortunately the price of a barrel of oil is rising and forcing that realisation upon more and more of us. Still a way to go until 300 a barrel at which point continental electric grids, using renewable sources, will be the only way out for stationary energy requirements.

I'd really like to live long enough to see what processes we develop for the little bit of carbon in that show to experience as it cycles through.

[Codger]

Originally Posted by AMG

I don´t want to transfer the CO2 debate to YachtForums....... http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/newyork08.cfm

Why not? Perhaps out of the ether that is Yachtforums, some bright spark of information might alight on this subject. After all, it is a subject that affects the whole industry, from the costs and choices of materials all the way to motive force. Perhaps you hit on a possible way to get around on the water that's just waiting to be reality. Neo.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/16786-post106.html

[catmando]

I watched Crude two nights ago and found it very informative. Many companies are joining forces to develop new fuels. Gas/electric and diesel/electric systems show much promise. The French have even developed a car that runs on air.

As to that Heartland Institute, they should change their name to the Fatherland Institute. No group that allies itself with Tobacco has my respect. You can't call yourself a think tank if all your ideas are stupid.

[AMG]

Originally Posted by AMG

I don´t want to transfer the CO2 debate to YachtForums...

Originally Posted by Codger

Why not?

Perhaps mainly selfish as I am following this debate on a dozen dedicated forums...

But as it is today, at least here in Europe, the media and politicians describes CO2 as far worse than rabies..! Absolutely everything is considered as causing "the climate crisis". There are polar bears limping around on melting ice sheets in every second weather report and even parked cars are big CO2 polluters and under attack by activists. (We have already CO2 taxes both on fuel and cars..)

If you watched the "Crude", they actually said that things can go bad, "- if the IPCC assumptions is right" and the girl finally said; "It could be true".

But here it is not only true, it is all over us, day and night. Kids are scared to death, just as we were afraid of the atomic bomb during the cold war.

Despite there is not yet any hard evidence that the IPCC is right...

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by catmando

. As to that Heartland Institute, they should change their name to the Fatherland Institute. No group that allies itself with Tobacco has my respect. You can't call yourself a think tank if all your ideas are stupid.

I live in Washington DC (at least for a while longer), and I can attest to many a misleading named foundations and think tanks in this city.

Perhaps I should have taken advantage of working for one of them with a very good salary, but my heart and mind wouldn't let me do it.

"Fatherland Institute" caught my attention. I've said a few times over the last few years that this Bush administration has been one close encounter with Fascism coming to the USA.

[brian eiland]

One of my primary concerns in this debate is not so much the CO2 emmissions situation, but rather our wasteful usage of the hydrocarbon gift we've been given.

We (particularly USA) are not being good stewards of those hydrocarbon products. We are wasting a tremendous amount on private auto transportation. There are SO MANY other products in our daily lives that depend on the hydrocarbon product, and it would be a real shame to have to cut back on them as a resulting need for more auto fuel....but this could be the future, if we fail to practice some conservartion of those resources. And thus far our US Congress has failed to enact hardly ANY conservation bills.

I just spent 40 days in Thailand, one of the biggest auto markets in Asia. They've gone auto crazy, as will China and India, and Indonesia. If these populations adopt our model, think of the impact on the remaining oil reserves. We may not have enough for the plastics industry, let alone many others....we'll burn it all up as fuel for cars!!

Now at least in Thailand is more fuel conservative than the USA. I would guess that 80% of their vehicles are diesel engine powered, and relatively small diesels at that. And a big number are coming on as comman rail engines that are even more efficient. Compare that to the USA...no comparison.

I guess the point that the documentrary "Crude" made to me is that we have a finite resource of oil that we need to consider, not only in terms of an energy source, but also in the scheme of our earth's evolution. It can't be wrong to seriously try to limit both oil usage and CO2 emissions if we desire to leave a liveable earth to the next generation, and the next one after that.

[Codger]

AMG
Perhaps this little space is a good place to share some of the thoughts on this subject. The crew here seem to be a little more dispassionate and intellectually disciplined with a healthy dose of skeptical practicality than what I generally come across. The caterwauling of the media and some politicians is, much of the time, sound bite fluff catering to those without the patience to actually activate more than the absolute minimum of cranial synaptic activity. This is not a subject that lends itself to thoughtful discussion if there are time constraints imposed on it. There are always "ifs" and "coulds" in the discussion of any theory. The theory is only validly considered by testing and the consideration of alternative causal factors.

If you do come across any information that does make sense in your more extended travels through other bits of the www, why not bring it here.

My collection of African Violets would not consider Carbon dioxide to be a pollutant. No, I haven't asked them but I'll just make the assumption since it has been established that plants would have a difficult go of it without CO2.