[C4ENG]

Admin Edit: This thread has been split from the "Yogi Sinks" thread to prevent further embarrassment to the community. That thread has been locked.

Originally Posted by Marmot

If the boat is classed, if it is commercially operated, and is over 500 tons then there is no option for the nonsense you just posted. If the surveys are not completed then the certificates are invalid and the boat is just a collection of uninsured and very expensive parts.

When we are talking about boats like Yogi, we are not talking about the kind of junk you keep telling us about. They are commercial vessels that fall under very well defined standards of operation and maintenance. Yes, there are a few of them that are so badly managed and operated that they resemble private boats run by cheapskates and amateurs but nonetheless, there are rules and standards that when applied and followed are supposed to prevent idiots from running them and setting them on fire or sinking them.

Yogi was one of the boats that class and flag are supposed to regulate to the point where a greater degree of safety is obtained. The manning of those boats is supposed to preclude the employment of incompetent or poorly trained crews.

I firmly believe the only thing that would not pass a thorough survey on Yogi was the crew. If i am correct, Flag needs to make that clear and tell us what went wrong and how we might avoid a repeat. If we need to change licensing and training standards, and make it retroactive, so be it. Like I keep saying, if we wait until we kill a billionaire's child it will be too late for the commercial yacht industry. Yogi should be a wake up call for a lot of people.

I was going to read your long post but you started to bore me about 3 sentences in.

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by C4ENG

I was going to read your long post but you started to bore me about 3 sentences in.

Hi,

You seem to have a particular dislike to things YF Member Marmot writes and there are a lot of what you probably feel are smart ass comments in your posts after he has written something.

Whilst he might seem a bit abrasive sometimes, he is a very experienced Marine Engineer who has now moved into the management operation.

A lot of what he writes is based upon his own knowledge and experiences which he seems to have a lot more of than most.

If you don't want to enhance your own knowledge just say nothing don't repeatedly prove to everyone else who reads the posts what a small closed mind you have.

[C4ENG]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

You seem to have a particular dislike to things YF Member Marmot writes and there are a lot of what you probably feel are smart ass comments in your posts after he has written something.

Whilst he might seem a bit abrasive sometimes, he is a very experienced Marine Engineer who has now moved into the management operation.

A lot of what he writes is based upon his own knowledge and experiences which he seems to have a lot more of than most.

If you don't want to enhance your own knowledge just say nothing don't repeatedly prove to everyone else who reads the posts what a small closed mind you have.

I was counting on you to back up your Marmot buddy. BTW I didn't finish reading your post either

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by C4ENG

I was counting on you to back up your Marmot buddy. BTW I didn't finish reading your post either

Hi,

I wouldn't call Marmot a buddy more like a fellow professional , you on the other hand might feel you are one but a lot of what you post shows clearly you are delusional at best - I am thinking back to your plastic hose hydraulic fittings photos from a couple of years ago and it's accompanying drivel.

Stick to those small boats in your bath tub and the rest of the business will no doubt be safer.

[C4ENG]

Originally Posted by K1W1

I am thinking back to your plastic hose hydraulic fittings photos from a couple of years ago and it's accompanying drivel.

Ha Ha that is great!! I totally did that to make you and marmot think I was retarded because you two where treating every one like they where to stupid to be alive.
Haha! You really thought I was going to install a plastic coupling on 2600 psi hydro line Haha!! That is Grrrrrreat!!!

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by C4ENG

Ha Ha that is great!! I totally did that to make you and marmot think I was retarded because you two where treating every one like they where to stupid to be alive.
Haha! You really thought I was going to install a plastic coupling on 2600 psi hydro line Haha!! That is Grrrrrreat!!!

Hi,

Maybe you should read this.

Hydro refers to water, please don't now try and tell us your deck wash runs at 2600 psi.

This forum is somewhere that folks come to get advice and second opinions. The standards of what is given out are generally very high you should try to keep it that way.

[C4ENG]

Welcome to Hydroline Product

[captholli]

Here we go again, the two 800 pound gorillas on the forum team up to squash the fully licensed MCA and USCG (sailing) chief engineer and NOT a desk jockey or a supposed CPM and totally dismiss what he brought to the thread and that is that flag state and or society surveys / be it annual or 5 -10 year surveys are more than often delayed for months and months and the term
"dispensation" is the key word among flag and society wags / obviously it's 'become a huge gravy train for the supposed "professional daggs or dinglberries that have to make their living this way. The acronym for MCA the last five years has been the Med.Mafia cause it's more than apparent that it's all about the fees generated and not so much about safety so be afraid, be very afraid!!!

[C4ENG]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

I wouldn't call Marmot a buddy more like a fellow professional , you on the other hand might feel you are one but a lot of what you post shows clearly you are delusional at best - I am thinking back to your plastic hose hydraulic fittings photos from a couple of years ago and it's accompanying drivel.

Stick to those small boats in your bath tub and the rest of the business will no doubt be safer.

That was a great thread. I had to go back in time to find it again for a good laugh HAHA! Not to mention the memory of you and marmots true colors.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/te...s-failure.html

[YachtForums]

C4ENG,

As you know, we met at FLIBS 2008 when you were aboard DFH. It's always good to meet fellow YF members and given your position onboard the three letter acronym, respect was extended.

I've had the honor of meeting Marmot and K1W1 many times. Trust me when I tell you, if you met them, you would like them. But I'll be honest here... I'm sometimes afraid to post too. At one time, I was arrogant enough to think I knew something about yachts, but I'm a neophyte in training compared to these guys.

Collectively, they have forgotten more about boat building and engineering than most of us combined. We are **** lucky to have them here and although they can be very direct, I would MUCH prefer experience over tact.

You got used as an example - way back when - because these guys have long grown tired of having to compensate for the shortcomings of others. These are the guys that make things happen, while others stand around asking "what happened?"

I know you want to give 'em both barrels sometimes (and so do I!), but you're allowing this to be personal. IT IS NOT! They are making points and it has nothing to do with you. It's about accurate information.

Believe it or not, K1W1 is quite possibly the funniest guy I've ever met, but it doesn't come though in his writing. Marmot - BELIEVE IT OR NOT - is quite possibly the nicest, easiest going, humble person I've ever met. NO JOKE!

Let it go bro! We're among friends.

[Capt J]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

Maybe you should read this.

Hydro refers to water, please don't now try and tell us your deck wash runs at 2600 psi.

This forum is somewhere that folks come to get advice and second opinions. The standards of what is given out are generally very high you should try to keep it that way.

The 76' Northern Marine I used to run has a built in pressure washer with quick disconnects on the deck that ran those psi's precisely for deck washing.........I'm sure it's not the only yacht that has a pressurized water system like a pressure cleaner installed in the boat.

[Capt J]

Originally Posted by YachtForums

C4ENG,

As you know, we met at FLIBS 2008 when you were aboard DFH. It's always good to meet fellow YF members and given your position onboard the three letter acronym, respect was extended.

I've had the honor of meeting Marmot and K1W1 many times. Trust me when I tell you, if you met them, you would like them. But I'll be honest here... I'm sometimes afraid to post too. At one time, I was arrogant enough to think I knew something about yachts, but I'm a neophyte in training compared to these guys.

Collectively, they have forgotten more about boat building and engineering than most of us combined. We are **** lucky to have them here and although they can be very direct, I would MUCH prefer experience over tact.

You got used as an example - way back when - because these guys have long grown tired of having to compensate for the shortcomings of others. These are the guys that make things happen, while others stand around asking "what happened?"

I know you want to give 'em both barrels sometimes (and so do I!), but you're allowing this to be personal. IT IS NOT! They are making points and it has nothing to do with you. It's about accurate information.

Believe it or not, K1W1 is quite possibly the funniest guy I've ever met, but it doesn't come though in his writing. Marmot - BELIEVE IT OR NOT - is quite possibly the nicest, easiest going, humble person I've ever met. NO JOKE!

Let it go bro! We're among friends.

While I think this is all true. They either spend way too much time in solitude, lack social skills or are insecure. Many times there posts have very condescending smart ass remarks that personally attack people, that a professional of their skill set should avoid. I've seen them make nasty comments to about a dozen different people from time to time. I'm very secure in myself and could careless what remarks they make towards me, but not everyone else is that way.

[travler]

there is a wealth of info on this site and i respect the views of all and i understand that some times people think some are a little to harsh i respect the 800 lb gorilla's because i have herd the same comments many times over it's there work ethick and dedication that keeps them alive and the people they work with as i tell the young guy's that work under me just humer me i'am old fat bald & stubern so live with it

waiting for the ice to melt travler

[Marmot]

Originally Posted by Capt J

Many times there posts have very condescending smart ass remarks that personally attack people ...

Since you have included me among the "they" I would be interested in seeing just how many of those "many" personal attacks came from me. It should be pretty easy so why just propagate the myth?

So far the only personal attacks or for that matter any other posts on this thread that referred to anything other than issues surrounding the Yogi sinking originated from the keyboard of a certain member who seems to have his own issues and were directed at me personally and not even about the comments or the issues. It was a fairly focused discussion until that person decided to trash the thread for some reason.

Now, if anyone has any insights or thoughts as to how or why Yogi sank, or what might lead a professional crew on a new, large commercial yacht operating under a Safety Management System could come to such an end, I would like to read them.

[Capt J]

Originally Posted by Marmot

Since you have included me among the "they" I would be interested in seeing just how many of those "many" personal attacks came from me. It should be pretty easy so why just propagate the myth?

So far the only personal attacks or for that matter any other posts on this thread that referred to anything other than issues surrounding the Yogi sinking originated from the keyboard of a certain member who seems to have his own issues and were directed at me personally and not even about the comments or the issues. It was a fairly focused discussion until that person decided to trash the thread for some reason.

Now, if anyone has any insights or thoughts as to how or why Yogi sank, or what might lead a professional crew on a new, large commercial yacht operating under a Safety Management System could come to such an end, I would like to read them.

Here's one right in this thread "When we are talking about boats like Yogi, we are not talking about the kind of junk you keep telling us about." In my opinion Yogi is pure junk. a 1 year old megayacht sinking in a moderate sea.

I took a 1998 45' Searay sedan Bridge from ft. lauderdale to St. Croix back in 2007, we got into 10-12' seas from PR to St. Croix, it didn't come apart, nothing broke, and it didn't even get a stress crack.....much less sink........And it sure as heck isn't considered a top quality boat.

Just saying.