[travler]

And What Do You Guy's Realy Think

Travler

[lobo]

Originally Posted by SeaEric

I have spent as much as 4 years working with a buyer to find the right yacht. I'm more than willing to do that. This assuming the buyer is legitimate and sincere.



Exactly the subject of this post. The offer on the boat usually involves the trade of a beachfront condo. Somehow, the signed agreement and deposit check never arrive. Then subsequent voice mail messages and e-mails go unanswered.

Sometimes life can be tough for a legitimate buyer too :
Searching for our last yacht, I received a video from a broker, of one of the internationally known „? & ?”-brand broker houses, which he took on board a 70’ SY centrally listed with him in Florida. The footage broke off at some point “… due to camcorder problems …”, but what we saw was still reason enough for me to buy tickets for my wife and me from Europe to Miami for an inspection.
Arriving at the Marina in Palm Beach, we found a “boat is open” note at the dockmaster’s office, but no broker around. The yacht looked good at first sight, but when we lifted the floorboards and opened the engine room, we knew what the camcorder problems really had been and why this pride of the broker profession never showed up on his central listing that day.
We turned around and, $8k poorer but a lot wiser, flew back to Europe. We never heard anything from that broker again, but keep telling the story with full names on every dock we tie up to.
Only trust a salesperson you know personally, or who comes with a first class reference from someone you trust. Apparently, glossy ads and big company names are no assurance whatsoever for quality in this industry.

[Loren Schweizer]

Sissy stories thus far...the truly aggravating buyers are the ones who, after having been shown a dozen boats, go directly to the seller and make an offer.
The listing broker--as well as the seller--, thank gawd, is a stand-up type who blows the whistle on the "buyer" (that sack of S___). 'Buyer' steps away from the deal... broker is shocked! I tell you, SHOCKED!

All that over a half-million dollar boat---akin to the types who hold up the Seven Elevens. Yo, try a bank, Big Guy!

Time are tough and this sort of behavior becomes more common than you'd think as these experiences are exchanged between brokers, who, as a group, I find to be more honest than most buyers and some sellers.
Ain't the internet great?

BTW, the erstwhile "buyer" (KH) drove a new 750 Li and had a very tony place off Las Olas. Appearances do deceive.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by Loren Schweizer

Sissy stories thus far...the truly aggravating buyers are the ones who, after having been shown a dozen boats, go directly to the seller and make an offer.
The listing broker--as well as the seller--, thank gawd, is a stand-up type who blows the whistle on the "buyer" (that sack of S___). 'Buyer' steps away from the deal... broker is shocked! I tell you, SHOCKED!

All that over a half-million dollar boat---akin to the types who hold up the Seven Elevens. Yo, try a bank, Big Guy!

Time are tough and this sort of behavior becomes more common than you'd think as these experiences are exchanged between brokers, who, as a group, I find to be more honest than most buyers and some sellers.
Ain't the internet great?

BTW, the erstwhile "buyer" (KH) drove a new 750 Li and had a very tony place off Las Olas. Appearances do deceive.

How do you think he paid for that tony place? Actually, the buyer did nothing wrong (although ethically disgusting) unless he had some sort of contract. Had the Seller (who had a contract with the broker) gone along with the scam that would be actionable.

[Bayside Bert28]

As an owner of small airplanes and now boats too, I hedge my bets when it comes to the eventual sale by keeping my craft in perfect condition and up to date with lots of sweet upgrades ... squawk free. I'm quite sure this is no less expensive than selling a poorly maintained craft for a fire sale price but it allows me to maintain my own self respect.

When the tire kicker low baller comes to see my cream puff I don't mind saying ... make your offer ... sure ... but the sale is inevitable and soon.

The low baller tire kicker NEVER buys my stuff.

To each his own.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by Bayside Bert28

As an owner of small airplanes and now boats too, I hedge my bets when it comes to the eventual sale by keeping my craft in perfect condition and up to date with lots of sweet upgrades ... squawk free. I'm quite sure this is no less expensive than selling a poorly maintained craft for a fire sale price but it allows me to maintain my own self respect.

When the tire kicker low baller comes to see my cream puff I don't mind saying ... make your offer ... sure ... but the sale is inevitable and soon.

The low baller tire kicker NEVER buys my stuff.

To each his own.

It amazes me how some people who are supposed to be financially savy will treat a million dollar asset like a used car or worse. I recently saw a guy trade in his 3 year old boat rusted, dirty and with several inches of oily water in the bilge. I thought it was 6 to 8 years old. Can only imagine what that cost him.
The low baller tire kicker MAY buy your stuff once he's negotiated up. What's that old tag: "An educated buyer is our best customer".

[yachtbrokerguy]

Eric, On the Yacht Council professional site there is a Trophy List of buyers who have used bad checks or scammed brokers, and some who are "pretend buyers" doing this as a hobby for years. Unfortunately not enough of the problem clients are added to the list.
Since these 'buyers" are not really buying, they do not need money to pretend to buy, so they are not affected by the recession. As we have less real buyers in this market, there might be a higher proportion of fake buyers to waste your time.
My current favorite time waster is the buyer who calls about a certain boat, then tells you that they want the owner of that boat to take real estate in trade. Then they say that the real estate is worth X amount of dollars more than the boat, and they want the seller of the boat to give them the boat plus a large amount of cash from the seller to the buyer to put the deal together.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by yachtbrokerguy

Eric, On the Yacht Council professional site there is a Trophy List of buyers who have used bad checks or scammed brokers, and some who are "pretend buyers" doing this as a hobby for years. Unfortunately not enough of the problem clients are added to the list.
Since these 'buyers" are not really buying, they do not need money to pretend to buy, so they are not affected by the recession. As we have less real buyers in this market, there might be a higher proportion of fake buyers to waste your time.
My current favorite time waster is the buyer who calls about a certain boat, then tells you that they want the owner of that boat to take real estate in trade. Then they say that the real estate is worth X amount of dollars more than the boat, and they want the seller of the boat to give them the boat plus a large amount of cash from the seller to the buyer to put the deal together.

That sounds like a good way to sell property in this economy, and real estate is a better investment than a yacht hands down. It's just a major complication for a broker.
Update to post #4, I found and bought my Harley. The seller had it listed at a very fair price, in fact a very low price compared to others. I still asked for more....and got it. I hate time wasters, but there's nothing wrong with looking for a great deal. You've all seen those "We'll meet or beat any body's price" ads from car dealers. It's a con of course. They NEVER pay up. I once got the 2 free dinners. They cursed me out (literally), but they couldn't match the deal I negotiated. It's all a game, and the best brokers know how it's played. The not so great get their time wasted.

[yachtbrokerguy]

It is pretty tough for an honest broker to say that a yacht is an investment, but if somonone bought a boat in early 2007 or bought a condo in South Florida, Las Vegas or many other areas at the same time, the boat might well be worth a lot more than the condo now.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by yachtbrokerguy

It is pretty tough for an honest broker to say that a yacht is an investment, but if somonone bought a boat in early 2007 or bought a condo in South Florida, Las Vegas or many other areas at the same time, the boat might well be worth a lot more than the condo now.

Aye, but to trade a yacht at it's current price for a house at it's current price will be a pretty good deal for the one selling the yacht.

[KonaLA]

Seems like the best thread to seek feedback.

As a buyer (and in sales), did my best to pre-qualify myself before starting my search. Was upfront with every broker I met with letting them know my fica score (A+), debt (0), monthly budget towards ownership, which included mortgage, slip fees, maintenance, insurance and a slush fund....I was very conservative. I'd actually would of been lowering my monthly expenditure by 30%.

I was unable to get financing since I'd never had a credit limit that high before (we're only talking $120k - it's my first boat).

Guess my point, other than being frustrated, is that I definitely did not intend to waste anyone's time. Brokers thought I was qualified and well informed. It's almost impossible to get financing.

I spoke with more than one underwriter pleading my case. Some of them even saw why I was doing it. Their currently job is not to assess risk and lend, but to work at not lending money.

[yachtbrokerguy]

Originally Posted by KonaLA

Seems like the best thread to seek feedback. I was very conservative. I'd actually would of been lowering my monthly expenditure by 30%.

Lowering your monthly expenditure by buying a boat? Did you plan to live aboard? If you are looking to borrow for a liveaboard, that was a problem even when the banks would give loans to unemployed ex-convicts. Without owning real estate, the banks thought their collateral could be impossible to find if the borrower decided to take off.

When I meet first time buyers I suggest they get pre-qualified for a loan and find out if they can get insurance. I hate to see a well intentioned buyer spend lots of effort to find the right boat only to find out they can not close through no fault of their own.

[KonaLA]

Living in Venice, CA is not cheap. I currently pay $3k in rent alone (which believe it or not, is a steel for what I have and location). My girlfriend owns her home and I spend all my time there now. The idea is to buy a boat and split our time between the two. So not a live-a-board. That way I'm not paying her rent and I've increase the quality of both of our lives. Plus I've been wanting to do this for a very long time, but moving fairly frequently, it didn't make sense.

I obviously did not try hard enough to get pre-qualified. When I did, banks needed all of information on what boat I was buying. I shared my financial's with the brokers and they thought I was more than qualified.

As some brokers have suggested...get her to co-sign....I'll only do that when I want her to break up with me.