Open 60's

SVDesign · 07-04-2008, 01:33 PM

Past projects for Vendée Globe 2004.
They are dated 2003. Maybe you will notice interesting details.....

Mk-I project

with strong cost constraints for construction and maintenance --> hard chine hull shape, medium power, and possibility to use the ship for cruise after pure racing period.

Mk-II project

with no financial restiction at all for the study --> wide, powerfull, canting keel, twin rudders, and original arrangement for the cockpit.

They look a little bit superseeded today, but 4 years ago they could have been on the edge, especially Mk-II project.

FISHTIGUA · 07-04-2008, 02:59 PM

Sylvain,
Those hard chines, as you say, do look a little 'old' even today.

Do you not feel that todays Open 60s will, through power of the rigs, be super fast but now it is durability and ease of use that will prove winners.

I was chatting to Ellen awhile ago and she said it was the breakdowns that killed the spirit more than anything (bloody technology).

Blending Speed to Robustness with Hi-Tech is very difficult. Now that is the Art.

Dave

SVDesign · 07-05-2008, 02:24 AM

Dear Dave,

100% agree with you on overall durability of these ships !!!

The idea behind full hard chines was ease to build, using a special process for lamination of the composite hull with no mould required.
Also, giving hydrodynamic stability to the ship, I was expecting a great saving for autopilots and even a significant reduction of appendages : go fast, but not like a brutus

We are thinking similar !

Sylvain

FISHTIGUA · 07-06-2008, 12:11 PM

Sylvain.

Oh yes. you are so very right, Open 60's are now getting very pricey, so a simple mold with carbonfibre should keep the costs down. As you said a softer ride can also help. Strong and simple are an aim but its down to the electronics for data these days

Cheers

Dave

SVDesign · 07-06-2008, 02:44 PM

Several years ago, I discussed a lot with Guillaume Verdier, designer of Safran, and we shared a lot of principles.
Some of them have been applied on its latest boat : hard chine for hydrodynamic aspects, light and "simple" design, more time for skipper to rest and work on strategy, less time on the deck to tune everything.

It is maybe not the best configuration on a transatlantic race, but on a around-the-world where sailor fitness is a major point, I continue to think this can be an advantage !

I have other projects under way for racing boats, but...... shhh..... next time may the right one.
I missed VG2004 because of late funding of the race project. I'm still ready to go for a new challenge if the opportunity appears again

SVDesign · 03-20-2009, 02:49 AM

Pictures have gone....

Here again :

Mk-I

Mk-II

AMG · 03-20-2009, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVDesign

Pictures have gone....

Hi Sylvain, linked pictures will soon disappear again, you should post them using YF:s file attachment.

SVDesign · 03-20-2009, 04:13 AM

This time, I put the link of my website. No risk to see them vanishing again !

K1W1 · 03-20-2009, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVDesign

This time, I put the link of my website. No risk to see them vanishing again !

Hi,

I think you are missing AMG's point here.

Linked images disappear because they are removed by the mods as the use of these infringes the rules of YF.

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LLC · 03-20-2009, 04:19 AM

Without trying to attack or dismiss your design and keeping in mind the date (2004) there are a few points I am not sure about. The deck of both boats are definitely not to my personal preference but as I said that is personal.

I am more worried about the behaviour of the hull in the real world. the multiple chined design is in theory quicker and cheaper to build but it also results in a hull shape that trims very differently when heeled and a plan shape that does not, I feel, represents an easily driven hull. With the appendage design taking months on the current crop of 60's I am sure the rendering just show a possible location and combination of keel, daggerboards and rudder.

It is my opinion that the IMOCA60 rule is a pure development class and I fully agree with Mich Desj who said after winning the 2008-2009 vendee globe that everyone who moaned about the breakages should actually race one of these boats for 90 days straight and then tell if they still feel they are fragile. As it is a development class I cannot see how and why one of these boats will be good for cruising. But again that is personal.

I do think your motoryacht designs look extraordinary and in the appropriate topic will ask some questions on those.

SVDesign · 03-20-2009, 04:34 AM

I come again, with hosted picts this time.
I was managing all image hosting via dedicated servers, like other forums. It means all my picts on other posts will disappear also.

As not allowed, I strongly recommend to administrators to remove the "image" button from toolbar - it will prevent from confusion.

SVDesign · 03-20-2009, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LLC

Without trying to attack or dismiss your design and keeping in mind the date (2004) there are a few points I am not sure about. The deck of both boats are definitely not to my personal preference but as I said that is personal.

I am more worried about the behaviour of the hull in the real world. the multiple chined design is in theory quicker and cheaper to build but it also results in a hull shape that trims very differently when heeled and a plan shape that does not, I feel, represents an easily driven hull. With the appendage design taking months on the current crop of 60's I am sure the rendering just show a possible location and combination of keel, daggerboards and rudder.

It is my opinion that the IMOCA60 rule is a pure development class and I fully agree with Mich Desj who said after winning the 2008-2009 vendee globe that everyone who moaned about the breakages should actually race one of these boats for 90 days straight and then tell if they still feel they are fragile. As it is a development class I cannot see how and why one of these boats will be good for cruising. But again that is personal.

I do think your motoryacht designs look extraordinary and in the appropriate topic will ask some questions on those.

These renders are really initial sketches before complete design and development. I'm convinced that hard chine requires a complete analysis of appendages, to balance the extra wetted area by a reduced appendage surface. If you visit my webpage, going into RC model section, you will find a concept I'm pushing ahead, mixing round and chined hull in order to create a lifting effect.

Mk-I concept was designed not to meet the higher level of performance, but to meet minimum criteria to enter IMOCA 60 class, and be able to participate to a Vendée Globe. Economic and recycling was the aim of this boat.

Mk-II has been sketched in 1 week only, when we found a potential sponsor with no fund limit, and it has not been developped further since that time. Unfortunately, it was really too late to build and race the ship in acceptable conditions, and we gave back the money.