[C4ENG]

This is sort of a spin off on the "Who has the best job in the industry".
I have in the past wondered what life would be like on those shadow boats compared to being on the mother ship. Could it be much better? Even though you probably would not deal much with guess, could you find your self always hanging on the hook while every one else is in some nice cozy marina safely tied to the dock while you are bobbing up an down in the surges? Could you be the neglected step child that get's no fringe benifeits? Or be the one that the owner really doesn't care what you do and life is great next to the best thing of not having to work at all? Any one out there know any thing going on with these Shadow Boats?

[CaptTom]

C4eng,
I'll take a crack at this, but I'm sure Stan can and will give you more insight to your question as he managed a fleet that included a shadow vessel (that's the Lady Lola and LL Shadow fleet).
I just happened to write a story recently on shadow boats (to be published in Oct in The Triton). And one thing that was specified to me from those interviewed was that crew can rotate between the primary vessel and the shadow vessel, to help ward off some of those issues you mentioned. And some of the recent and new shadow models coming do have guest cabins for overflow from the main vessel, so you know those shadows will have many of the features like the main vessel (ie deck, stew, etc). And if you're on a shadow with a helo, you may bvery well be busy at times ferrying owners/guests between main vessel and shadow. True that shadows cannot fit into all harbors, but if you are looking to hook up with a fleet that includes a shadow, see if the captain has a rotation schedule.
Capt Tom

[C4ENG]

Tom

I will be looking forward to reading your article in the Triton next month.

[YES!]

Well said, Captain Tom, and Thank You for the generous coverage via the quality hard press of the Triton.

Let me fill in some of the blanks which are the standard questions surrounding the operation of a Yacht Escort Ship.

Every captain is different in how he/she manages and operates their command. My style was to have EVERYBODY understand EVERYTHING that happens on board the yacht. Deck helped with turn downs in the evening, stews helped detail the engine room, and I put our tiny chef in the bilges with a paint brush to get the corners that no one else could reach. There were grins and awe all around when the stewies were at the helm of a 63 meter doing man overboard Williamson-turns. Everyone learns and gains respect for others in this way.

While I applied the same concept to the Lady Lola Shadow crew - I sent deck crew and engineers to help when they were buried with tender and toys use as well as bringing shadow crew over to the main yacht to assist with big functions, a fast topsides washdown, bartending, tender runs, etc. - the crews were disctinct and permanently assigned to their respective vessel. Keep in mind that even though my new Yacht Escort Ships do have luxury guest cabins on board, they are really only used as hotel rooms. The guests spend all of their time on the main yacht and only spend the night on the shadow, so that there is really no "guest services" other than cabin maintenance, turn downs, and a bit of laundry.

The funny aspect, as it is in life, was that the grass was always greener on the other boat. The yacht crew was jealous that the shadow crew seemed only to work from 9 - 5. It is true that toys, tenders and helicopters are only really used during daytime hours. Other than the duty person, everyone else on the yacht support vessel could go ashore every evening even with guests on board. With guests embarked, the yacht crew was busy every night. But the shadow crew was jealous that they were not on the high profile, shiny white boat that got all of the attention. It is correct that the shadow spends a great deal of time at anchor when in use by guests, but I assured that the crew had a good, large tender (I swear by the Nautica cat with bow ramp and a 225 Yamaha) to be able to go to shore comfortably and safely. Everybody wanted to work on the other boat, none-the-less. Must be human nature.

The synergism between the two crews was most surprising. They were very happy to help each other, work together, shop together and certainly party together.

From the engineer perspective, the operation of a yacht support vessel is realtively simple. It is a commercial engine room was large, basic macinery and easy access to everything. Only certified helicopter mechanics can service the bird and you have the typical tender and toys quirks.

For deck hands, it is a great job compared to a yacht because you are always working with tenders, operating cranes, launching and recovering toys and then doing the basic maintainence. The shadow paint job is commercial, so there is not much chamois work other than the tenders, no polished stainless, no varnish, no miles of windows to detail. It is an active job without the dreary repetition of polishing the same piece of paint day after day.

The cook/stew is responsible for the interior, cooking and laundry. The meals are good, ample but not fancy. Once again, all the polishing of high gloss furniture, sterling silver upkeep, china detailing, and other tedious tasks are less evident.

To me, having spent a good number of years in the industry, I think the captain of a yacht support ship is the best job in the business. More casual dress and presentation, guests only pass though - they are all gone by 1600 hours to get ready for Happy Hour on the yacht and by the time they get up and have breakfast, it is at least 1000 before you see them. You go to all the great yachtie places, every place to see and be seen, but without hoards of people at the passarelle, guest cars, shopping, people on and off the yacht. On the hook you have the best of all worlds.

I have gone on far too long, but let me know if you have any other questions.

The best yachting solution for me is a nice 50 meter yacht to be able to get in and out of every wonderful marina and harbour in the world, and a Yacht Escort Ship to carry every imaginable pleasure you would want on the water, not to mention the safety and security of traveling with your own fire boat, tug boat, refueling tanker, and assault ship with SEAL team embarked.

Thank you for your interest and comments.

[CaptTom]

Stan,
On behalf of the Titon crew, thanks for the kind words. Not sure if there will be sufficient information for our friend C4eng, but may be interesting nonetheless. And keep us in the loop as to your progress with the buildouts. Would like to keep everyone informed of your accomplishments.
Capt Tom

[airship]

The best yachting solution for me is a nice 50 meter yacht to be able to get in and out of every wonderful marina and harbour in the world, and a Yacht Escort Ship to carry every imaginable pleasure you would want on the water, not to mention the safety and security of traveling with your own fire boat, tug boat, refueling tanker, and assault ship with SEAL team embarked.

(The bold and underlining are my own.) Just what are the legal aspects of refuelling the yacht (or her helicopter and/or other tenders) from the "shadow boat", at least whilst in territorial waters? Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but I was under the impression that this sort of activity would be questionable, if not downright plain illegal in many countries? As for refuelling at sea in International waters, does the shadow boat crew simply throw over a few fenders, pass the hose and nozzle and get on with it...only I've yet to see any shadow boat properly equipped for "refuelling at sea" like they show here:



As for the shadow boat being called an "assault ship" well, I guess if the assaulting is going to be done by SEALS armed with "fire hoses" (or heaven forbid, balloons filled with coloured water?!) , then I suppose, just maybe, YES will be able to get away with that (somewhat IMHO) outrageous statement...

PS. Ever since the shadow boat Octopus got launched, I've been waiting to see the yacht she was built to shadow...

PPS. I can see an advantage of being an engineer on a shadow boat though: you won't get shouted at by the deck crew for having stepped out from an oily engine room onto their beautiful teak decks...?!

[YES!]

Interesting perceptions, airship -

We have had no problems anywhere in the world transfering fuel - not for sale - between any of our vessels, tenders, aircraft or mother ships. Do you have a problem in France now putting fuel in the tender from the yacht? I certainly hope not. There is no customs issue as all the yachts are foreign flagged, on international voyages, and are not purchasing or selling fuel - but rather only changing its location.

You might be surprised that the third most requested aspect of a yacht escort ship is to serve as the base for the body guards, the armored limousine and a protective "assault" RIB. Whether SEALs actually man the vessels is unlikely, but the capability to provide defense in depth for the Owner is undisputable.

Thanks for the thoughtful post and the wonderful image (which brings tears to my eyes) of UNREP (underway replenishment) at 20 knots by the US Navy......and not just fuel - movies, fresh milk and dairy, plus if you are really lucky, a visit by the chaplain.

[airship]

We have had no problems anywhere in the world transfering fuel - not for sale - between any of our vessels, tenders, aircraft or mother ships. Do you have a problem in France now putting fuel in the tender from the yacht? I certainly hope not. There is no customs issue as all the yachts are foreign flagged, on international voyages, and are not purchasing or selling fuel - but rather only changing its location.

I don't believe that France is unusual compared to other countries. I don't believe that there are any "problems" for a yacht in French territorial waters to refuel her tenders, whether they're inboard diesels or petrol outboards, jetskis or wave-runners, or even her own helicopter with Avgas or Jet fuel etc.

But I would suggest that it would be an extremely foolhardy (pair of) Captains (this is a thread about working on shadow boats...) who would proceed to "change the location" as you so quaintly put it, of several tens of thousands of litres of diesel say from the shadow boat "mother vessel" to her "charge", in full view of a French customs official or one from any other country...and that is disregarding any environmental regulations concerning bunkers undertaken at sea.

If "you have never had any problems" to date, then you should probably be thankful that the phenomenon of "shadow boats" is relatively new and above all, rare. Which probably explains why this sort of activity within a country's territorial waters isn't monitored.

Obviously, what happens outside of the usual 12 nautical mile limit is another matter. Unless of course, it falls within a country's "economic zone" which I believe can run out to a couple of hundred miles...

Anyway, why should any maritime or customs authority accept that "vessel A" is necessarily a "support vessel or mother ship" to "vessel B" and that the "change of location" of fuel, stores, passengers or crew should be allowed to proceed without any formalities whatsoever, compared to any other 2 vessels in their waters which claim no such "relationship"...?

Or do you just feel lucky YES (as the infamous Inspector Callaghan) might once have asked...?!

[YES!]

The same precautions and equipment exist and are required for the transfer of bunkers whether taking the fuel from the quay, from a truck or from another ship.

If there is no sale or exchange of consideraton for a commodity, then there is no customs issue.

Even shadow boat captains are not foolhardy and a bound by their good judgement and prortection of their credentials to address economic, safety, security and environmental issues correctly.

Am I missing the question?

[airship]

Am I missing the question?

I believe so.

If there is no sale or exchange of consideraton for a commodity, then there is no customs issue.

It should be abundantly clear that at some stage, prior to "the change of location", there was indeed a "sale or consideration" in exchange for a commodity. Presumably, the sale (or loading) was made to a specific vessel, under the usual procedures of carriage of cargo or supplies for consumption aboard, under the usual procedures in that country. Just because the beneficial owner of any 2 vessels are the same, you insist in the belief that because there is no documented sale or exchange of consideraton for the commodity in question, then there is no customs issue?!

For the same reasons that if you were to make me say "a gift of $1m dollars" tomorrow, which would probably mean both of us facing hefty tax bills in our respective countries, it's individual countries (or in the case of the EU, all of them together supposedly...) who apply their own customs and excise regulations.

And their ability to tax...

[YES!]

Seems the point the the vessels are owned by the same entity has been missed.

If I give myself a million, there is no tax consequence - same with fuel.

[airship]

Seems the point the the vessels are owned by the same entity has been missed.

Not at all. And just tell me...how often is the registered owner of a vessel (and especially a yacht) identical to another? I don't dispute the fact that the beneficial owner may be the same in some or even many cases, but unless I'm greatly mistaken, the registered owner/s, whether individuals or corporations, always ensure that there is no direct link between ownership of one vessel or another for various reasons including litigation and taxation...

If I give myself a million, there is no tax consequence - same with fuel.

What if you gave yourself a million paid out of a Bermuda bank a/c into your Florida bank a/c...?! Let's put this to the test. I'll PM you with my bank account details, I'll just be "lending you the facilities of my bank a/c", not trying to earn any profit from this. So you wire me $1m on the basis that you're the "mother ship" and I'm "the yacht" OK...

Within a few weeks or months, the French tax authorities (by virtue of their direct links to address bank a/cs here) will be asking me why the equivalent of 30 times my annual salary was originally paid into my a/c, and then very rapidly claiming that I'm running some form of business and reclaiming taxes on this activity...

Of course, that would never happen, as the day after I received $1m, I'd have transferred it all out to Nauru (where is that anyway?!)...

[YES!]

Not sure whether you are "what iffing" me, but I will play along for awhile.

International tax treaties allow that once you have paid taxes in your tax state, your funds can be moved freely around the world for your own personal (or corporate) use.

Since most yachts are citizens of the Cayman Islands (ie tax free), they can send money TO THEMSELVES (not to airship) anywhere in the world including the USA without tax consequence. You can send money to yourself in the USA and I can send money to myself from the USA to France, to the Netherlands or anywhere else in the world and not incur a tax event.

To clarify the above, no matter where a ship is flagged, she can send herself money (usually via an agent) anywhere internationally without taxation.

The same applies to fuel. If I own my yacht and a shadow boat, I buy fuel for them both in Gibraltar or Malta and when my yacht or tender or helo require, I can transfer my fuel to myself without any problems from any tax or customs authorities.

I must, however, satisfy port control with regards to my correct application of procedures and proper equipment while transfering bunkers between ships.

If, however, I am bringing fuel from Malta and selling it to airship, then I have some customs issues, just as the clever "offshore" fuel supplier did a few years ago in the Med.

Hope this clears up the Yacht Escort Ship role and capabilities.

Nice try with the test to send a million bucks to you, but fortunately I spent last night at a Holiday Inn Express......

[C4ENG]

Capt Tom
Saw your article in the Triton and I enjoyed reading it. I hope the company becomes a great success and also get's known for a great saftey buffer in this industry that every one wants.
I know I sure would feel safe having a boat following me out on the high seas.

[CaptTom]

C4ENG,
Thanks for the comments.
I think shadow boats are a great concept, not just for lugging the toys around but that you have a backup vessel available in case something goes wrong. And the fact that they can carry so many supplies, you can stay at sea longer without reprovisioning.
I did enjoy interviewing both Stan Antrim and Tom Gonzales for the story. They both have their own clear visions and believe in the vessels and that there is a market for them. Even via a telephone interview, Stan's energy and enthusiasm for his new venture came right through.
Capt Tom