[sailronin]

Just a thought for the designers out there.
While all the curves and huge windows and may look great......how many designers actually have been to sea?

It seems that yacht design is getting further and further from any practical purpose. Running lights that can't be reached without a ladder propped on narrow ledges (no way to replace a light bulb underway), windows that can't be reached for cleaning, no way to lead mooring lines (I saw one set of drawing where the designer had forgotten to include bits or cleats for mooring lines. When this was mentioned to him he admitted that it had not occured to him!).

Maybe there should be a requirement that the designer or stylist has to do one complete washdown and one passage of at least 500 miles on one of their creations.

I don't mean to be cynical, the majority of yachts are works of art but crewmen shouldn't put their lives at risk just to washdown or change a burned out light bulb.

Thanks for reading,
Dave

[KCook]

Fair theme Dave. Could you supply yacht names that stand out as examples of good real life design?

Kelly Cook

[sailronin]

Hi Kelly,
It's actually much eaiser to find examples of the bad ones but (think any boat that looks like it was carved from a bar of soap)...

A few positive examples would include
"Affinity"
most of the late Jack Hargrave designs (not the Taiwan stuff built after his death but using his name)
"Montigne" (?sp)
any of Dick Boon designs
Ed Monk Jr. designs in smaller yachts
Sally Ann



It's my two cents worth
Dave

[AMG]

Thanks Dave, I have said exactly the same thing in many posts here. The yachts you picked are among my favorites too but the sad thing is that many nice yachts are now being destroyed by adding ugly sterns. Montigne is a good example of a well designed extension, while Rio Rita got an ugly one...

Most designers (and shipyards) have never used a yacht more than the sea-trials. Just to continue on the stupid transoms, when a "swim platform" is designed, it shouldn´t be so low that the sea comes over all the time. As today they have the spray rail or fender too low, sucking water over the platform when underway, often with soot from exhausts, and at anchor the movement up and down also makes the platform drenched.

Even worse is the so called beaches, where a stern hatch is lowered down to the water level. Often with the golden nameplate staying in the water and getting dirty or destroyed. Just launching a tender from such a stern garage can be risky and always include a lot of additional work.

There is a big difference between fancy 3D renderings and real use of a yacht. Nice to here it from somebody with hands on experience!

/Lars

[KCook]

Something that has been bothering me is extreme rake on windshields for inside helms. My lowly Dodge Intrepid (automobile) has this and it's been a PITA to keep clean. I can't imagine putting up with that on a yacht. Must be nice to just make these things somebody else's problem!

Kelly

[sailronin]

Kelly,
The cleaning of the extreme rake type of windshield is one problem, the fact that you can't see out of them is another.
Although difficulty of cleaning was one concern, the saftey and seaworthiness were my primary target.
So many of these "modern" designs have no provision for crew to safely move about the boat while cleaning, visibility is very limited from the wheelhouse (those slanted windows), freeing ports are small, no safe way to handle lines while mooring.....the list goes on and on. Oceanfasts "Mercedes" has a huge bow well, it must be a real thrill when you bury the bow and that fills with several tons of water. Many smaller yachts are beginning to carry dinghys or jet skis on the bow, these can be ripped from strong points in rough seas and crash into (or through) forward cabin structures.
I met with designers from one firm and pointed out that it was virtually impossible to change a bulb in the running lights while underway. Then mentioned that not if but when someone was injured the product liability suit would be off the scale. The next yacht from them had side running lights that could be changed from the interior while underway.
I think that if the designers just went to sea they would fix many of the problems.

Dave

[tartanski]

Valid point here but yacht design has developed very recently to a state where the design is becoming an art work in its self, just as architecture has.

Se La Defense, Roissy Charles de Gaulle, or anyother French architecture for that matter for bad examples of aesthetics over practicality.

When I took the decision to study naval architecture , the majority of yachts were designed by Naval Architects, by the time I was half way through my course, the revolution headed up by civil Architects (Bannenberg, Foster, Francis) who then became what we now call Yacht designers was well underway.

I believe that Naval architects with enough of an eye for styling are a rarity and conversely so are Architects/designers with enough engineering experience to design something practical, but they do exist.


In the end I believe that the new Yacht designer profession has done something great for our world in that we can create these engineering master pieces, however in practical they are. And after all the choice still exists as there are many Naval Architects out there who would gladly draw up some lines for a more practical yacht.

[nilo]

i would like to comment that the designs are there to attract the owners and peculiar design features are incorporated to make boats more attractive to owners who have not been to sea, leave away performing any of the duties that crew will be obliged to perform. such owners do not realize that the priority should be safety, practicality and esthetics.

[sailronin]

The difference is that buildings don't have to go to sea.

I forget who said this but it is pretty true
"A house is nothing but a ship so poorly built that it can't go to sea."

Dave

[kalmeran]

Originally Posted by sailronin

Hi Kelly,
It's actually much eaiser to find examples of the bad ones but (think any boat that looks like it was carved from a bar of soap)...

A few positive examples would include
"Affinity"
most of the late Jack Hargrave designs (not the Taiwan stuff built after his death but using his name)
"Montigne" (?sp)
any of Dick Boon designs
Ed Monk Jr. designs in smaller yachts
Sally Ann



It's my two cents worth
Dave

Following this very interesting discussion, perhaps you can imagine why I like Northern Star so much.....so I add her to Dave's short list....

[KCook]

I had to look up Northern Star -

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/lu...hern-star.html

That looks a lot like an expedition yacht to me. By definition aren't all expedition yachts "real life"?

Kelly

[kalmeran]

Originally Posted by KCook

I had to look up Northern Star -

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/lu...hern-star.html

That looks a lot like an expedition yacht to me. By definition aren't all expedition yachts "real life"?

Kelly

That should be the case, Kelly, but today seee you some designers THINK that they designed an expedition yacht. The looks of such a yacht are trendy, you know.......but Dick Boon for instance (from Vripack fame) is one of the naval architects who understands what real life is. BTW : I keep confused on Northern Stars design : it is shown on the Vripack site and everywhere else you read it is an Espen Oenio creation ?? Fruitful cooperation perhaps ??

[tartanski]

My favourite this year has been the 'little' SKAGEN 50 if had the money... this would be at my anchorage for sure, albeit that wouldn't need much crew on this one!

www.skagen50.dk

Any one out there have any real life experience of this yacht? I would like to think she is good as she seems to be.

[KCook]

Impressive photo gallery for that Skagen!

http://www.skagen50.dk/pictures/bb-skag50-038_M.jpg