Age barriers??

Argonaught · 01-04-2008, 12:28 AM

Hi. I am seeking some advice................ For my next adventure I am looking at the super yacht industry, initially as a mate. I am ex New Zealand navy and have considerable command experience in vessels 30 - 50 metres as well as several years watch keeping in frigates and other ships. Also completed about 15,000 miles cruising the Pacific in my own 40foot sloop. I am a competent ship handler, navigator, and seaman. Am also a capable engineer and would be comfortable overseeing the plant and machinery of a vessel up to 50 metres. As well as that lot I have had management experience in the retail and tourism industries.

I plan on heading to Europe in April / May 08 to look for work and by that time will have obtained the RYA 200ton offshore skippers and basic STCW 95 tickets in addition to my RNZN Bridge Watchkeeping and Ocean navigation certificates..

So my question: is being 50 years old going to be a major obstacle in finding a mate position????

K1W1 · 01-04-2008, 11:32 AM

Hi,

As a fellow NZer I would like to welcome you to Yacht Forums.

I don't want to rain on your parade but have to say honestly that you will be up against it purely by your age.

I was told when I was 40 I was too old to be Chief Engineer by a Crew Agency person. I don't know if she had any comprehension where I got my experience to be holding a Merchant Navy Chiefs Ticket in the first place having also had nearly 20 yrs on yachts.

I got an ex Sealord guy a job as second engineer on a 60 m yacht in 2006 who had been turned down by several agencies at 44 yrs of age. He has a NZ Issued STCW 95 Class 1 Certificate and no one would touch him as it would be his first boat. If anyone had bothered to read his CV fully they would have seen that he did 2nds and Chiefs twice as his S.A. Tickets were not accepted to the NZ System when he arrived in 1994. No mean feat in anyones books.

This guy has taken to the business like a duck to water and has declined to look at another job I heard of for him recently out of pure gratitude to the Captain who gave him his first break into the industry.

If either of the guys mentioned here see this they will know who they are for sure.

All that down and negative stuff said I wish you luck and you never know when you will stand in the lucky puddle. Yachting can be very fickle like that to put it mildly.

Argonaught · 01-04-2008, 05:53 PM

Hi K1W1,

Thanks very much for your welcome and response, which unfortunately for me, is along the lines that I expected!

It would appear that despite published crew shortages (?), the industry as a whole has blinkers on. Being in your 40’s, I am sure you would agree that 50 is not old! I was kind of hoping, perhaps naively, that my considerable experience, excellent training, proven management skills, and great personality coupled with recent refresher training might have given me a reasonable chance at a look in.

Still not totally off the idea, I think I will contact some agencies before forking out the $6k to get the RYA and STCW.

Once again thanks for you realistic advice!!

Garry Hartshorn · 01-05-2008, 09:57 AM

The older you are the tougher it seems to get into yachting. However there are plenty of owners who want crew and captains with experiance. As long as the boat does not charter you do not need to go down the path of getting an MCA ticket. Might I suggest that you get your Kiwi master class 4 commercial ticket or larger if possible. Then look at a captains position on a 30 m private yacht.

Codger · 01-05-2008, 10:34 AM

Argonaut.
I just traveled half way across North America to hire an experienced machinist.
Granted that this is in a different industry but don't sell yourself short.
I'm sure that there are owners out there that are looking for someone that has already made his mistakes, and learned from them, on someone else's dime.

Another thought on this. Let it be known as widely as possible that you are looking. The man I'm about to hire was looking for almost 8 months and I only heard about him by accident on Thursday. Send your CV out to as many places as possible even if at first glance they don't seem to be potential employers. Sure, many of them will end up in File 13 but as in my case the CV may just find it's way to someone with an interest.

Gareth · 01-06-2008, 07:43 PM

I'm 57, I got out of the business when my kids were born,now they have grown. I'm looking to get back into boats. I agree there's prejudice against age, luckily some of my contemporaries who stayed in the business are now leading lights. I'm a dinghy coach, which speaks to my agility. I've been sneaking in slowly as a delivery skipper. I'm going to upgrade my Yachtmaster (one of the earliest) to "professional" in a couple of weeks.

Crew agencies are ignoring me however. Let's see what happens.

Argonaught · 01-06-2008, 08:07 PM

I had a feeling that this topic might generate a little bit of interest! Thank you to those who have posted replies. I am also amazed that there does not seem to be much information about professional yacht crewing available on the internet. After some weeks of researching I think that this forum is the most useful that I have found to date. I am presently in a library skimming through the popular yachting magazines but am yet to find any articles on crewing!

I note that this forum is largely American in content, and was wondering if there was a European equivalent??

jdpeterson · 01-10-2008, 03:09 PM

The Triton, a news source located in Ft. Lauderdale, publishes monthly and is an excellent source of information for captains and crew. Although based in the USA, has broad coverage. The link is thetriton.com (Carl, please delete the link if you deem it inappropriate to this forum.)

endeavour · 04-10-2008, 09:19 PM

Hi,

I am also a fellow NZer and just turned 60 and have yet to experience the joys of ageism in the luxury yacht employment market. While I am based in the UK which has anti ageism legislation they always find ways to get around employing you or the work is based in a country where they do not have such laws and they are able to request your date of birth.

I have been an IT consultant/Accountant, and have decided a career change was necessary and so I have just completed my RYA Yachtmaster offshore and have been looking for my first sailing job. I realise that I will have to start at the bottom of the rung in order to get a foot in the door. despite having sailed most of life and owned my own keel boats.

I am very fiI for my age exercising regularly so if anyone knows of any work I would be interested in hearing from them.

Endeavour

K1W1 · 04-11-2008, 12:59 AM

Hi,

Depending upon your IT skills you might get lucky just on the strength of this as there is such a dire shortage of guys and gals with the appropriate skills and experience in the business.

What level are your IT Quals up to?

Do you have any other skills like the repair of the equipment as well?

If your IT Skills are really high I can put you in touch with a guy for a job in Auckland

SSLillypad · 04-11-2008, 02:01 PM

I would have to agree our, Age shouldn't be as much a problem as a lack of responsability a young mate might display. I'm not bashing the younger folks, as I'm sure there are many young folks out there with more know hows than I may have and can keep a ship out of harms way, but there are many young guns out there that want to play more than work. You'd expect the gray beards to be past that and more respnsible for the owners.

NYCAP123 · 05-04-2008, 07:33 AM

I was an old man (38) when I got into this business. Did some commercial work , then went to Laud. Hit upon an owner who asked me how much I wanted. Said he'd call back. Ran into him again, same question. I said "whatever you want to pay, then we'll revisit the subject after you see what I know". That was 20 years ago. There's not much I haven't done in this business before or since, and that's the key. If you know how to work, and to think and just don't understand how to fail and give up there are employers who will recognize the wisdom and experience we bring to the game. I will say though that they are regulating and licensing old and young out of the trade. Just too many papers required these days and they cost too much in money and time to get to be worth the trouble. I think I'm getting out at my next renewal. That's a bit of experience leaving the trade.

AMG · 05-04-2008, 08:29 AM

You are right in that the "paper" knowledge is about to kill the real world knowledge.

I was a teacher at one of the first ever schools of driving and navigating high speed boats in the early 70:s. It wasn´t mandatory then, but today new regulations will force me to go to the same school to get a certificate before I am allowed to drive the boats I am building...

It is about the same with my old papers for captaining yachts, the fact that I was running an 85-footer for years is worth nothing since I have not been renewing my papers this side of the millenium.

NYCAP123 · 05-04-2008, 10:25 AM

Curious, Now that all Masters are required to get the new Transportation Workers Identification Credential (TWIC) issued by the TSA for $135 plus additional prescreening by the TSA (Weren't we already checked by the FBI?)how does that affect our foreign brethren?

Marmot · 05-04-2008, 11:52 AM

"... Now that all Masters are required ..."

Anyone holding a USCG issued license, MMD, or STCW is required to obtain a TWIC before April 15, 2009, not just "masters." And if your MMD or license is fairly recent (the dates are different for the MMD and the license) the cost is $105.

As for foreign crew, they will require an escort through "secure" areas.