[Teenna]

Two crew members on ICE's pool?:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...1291977&size=o
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...=photost ream

I loved this photos from Paolo, knowing well the life on board i can confirm that often crew is being smart. Enough to go in any port with home moorings and see how the crew behave out of the season, stereo blasting at max level, cheap chicks on board over night, behaviour that devaluates the business...

One might say it's a Captains fault, but what can you expect when a Captain has actually a house up in Grasse and is coming on board only when the owner is around?

[Ken Bracewell]

Originally Posted by Teenna

I loved this photos from Paolo, knowing well the life on board i can confirm that often crew is being smart. Enough to go in any port with home moorings and see how the crew behave out of the season, stereo blasting at max level, cheap chicks on board over night, behaviour that devaluates the business...

One might say it's a Captains fault, but what can you expect when a Captain has actually a house up in Grasse and is coming on board only when the owner is around?

Teena,
I'm not quite sure what you're saying in this post. Other than the bit about having unauthorized guests aboard overnight, none of the behaviour that you have mentioned should be considered improper. Crew are people too - and hard working people at that. They need to have time to relax and unwind just like everyone else.
Often time yacht crew will find themselves in a place in which people of average wealth cannot afford to play. In that case, what is the harm of allowing two of the senior crew (or any crew for that matter) to enjoy a dip in the pool rather than sitiing in the local bar and seeing how many cocktails it will take to whiddle away their day off. The pool will likely be emptied and scrubbed by those same crew members well before the owner arrives anyhow.
As a matter of fact, I make it a part of the normal maintenance routine for the crew to make a point of using all of the equiment aboard at least once a week. There is nothing worse than having an owner or guest jump on a jet ski or treadmill only to have it fail. That is less likely to happen when it is being used regularly.

[Teenna]

We have totaly opposite opinion about this matter, Ken. Being crew (quite military expression in itself) is being a part of highly organised sistem similar to the military one. Take for instance a cruise ship; aren't those women and men serving on board big cruise ships people too? And yet you don't see them eating in the guest restaurants or using pools or going jogging casual with an i-pod around the promenade deck. Yacht crew often forgets what is the point here. You don't have to run 4 gallons of fuel on a jet ski around the bay to make sure it is working properly for the owners.

[nas130]

Originally Posted by Teenna

We have totaly opposite opinion about this matter, Ken. Being crew (quite military expression in itself) is being a part of highly organised sistem similar to the military one. Take for instance a cruise ship; aren't those women and men serving on board big cruise ships people too? And yet you don't see them eating in the guest restaurants or using pools or going jogging casual with an i-pod around the promenade deck. Yacht crew often forgets what is the point here. You don't have to run 4 gallons of fuel on a jet ski around the bay to make sure it is working properly for the owners.

I am glad when I was a deckhand and a mate that you werent the captain. On busy boats, crew are lucky to have a day off every two weeks, so why not let them unwind onboard when all guests are gone. They will be the ones fixing it if it is broken, and cleaning it anyway. It also keeps them out of the bars. I agree 100% the toys need to be used. My current tender was never run by the previous skip and I am having a hell of a time getting it to run right. Jet skis in particular are ficke to not running properly after long rests!

[Ken Bracewell]

Originally Posted by Teenna

We have totaly opposite opinion about this matter, Ken. Being crew (quite military expression in itself) is being a part of highly organised sistem similar to the military one. Take for instance a cruise ship; aren't those women and men serving on board big cruise ships people too? And yet you don't see them eating in the guest restaurants or using pools or going jogging casual with an i-pod around the promenade deck. Yacht crew often forgets what is the point here. You don't have to run 4 gallons of fuel on a jet ski around the bay to make sure it is working properly for the owners.

You are right about the cruise ship crews. One point, however, is that they work on a rotation which allows them much of their own free time away from the ship. Yacht crew do not have this luxury. I know that some yachts are starting a rotation, but that is not the norm. As a matter of fact, my owners' have always taken a great pleasure in seeing the same faces every time they arrive rather than some random face.
I was once told that the with a good crew you are boating and with a great crew you are yachting. I enbrace this philosophy and have a great crew! I treat them as such.
Anyhow, I'm sure we can agree that you won't be working with me and my happy crew anytime soon. BTW- we have fantastic ownership that agree with my philosophy.

[MBACH]

Captain Kenny...........
Boy you should be ashamed of yourself beating up on Teena especially with help!

[Loren Schweizer]

A lively thread and one where I wish I were more up-to-date on.

Seems to me, in the olden days ( '70s-early '80s), esp. with foreign-built (non-U.S.) yachts, the crew was relegated to, shall we say, spartan conditions and expected to be seen and not heard.
The Amerikansky boats seemed to take a more enlightened, shall we call it egalitarian, view of the "help" as noted in the designs of crew's quarters as well as how chummy the owners felt.

In short, Euro/Latin American vessels would favor Teenna's view, whilst the gringos would side with Cap't. Ken, MBACH, and nas130.

From purely the practical view, Teenna, you have to agree that if the mechanical stuff isn't exercised regularly ( and made to be reliable for guests), the charter experience would be compromised and the crew might catch hell without the pleasure of trying it themselves.

Just my opinion.

[C4ENG]

I feel fortunate that I work for a owner on a large yacht that cares about us crew members and wants us to be happy and thankful that we work for him. It seems that he almost wants us to enjoy being on this boat as much as he does. Last month I had hurt my back and was using the hot tub up top to help heal me. I feel for almost certain if my boss had walked up there and saw me in the hot tub trying to heal myself, he would probably want to ask if there was any more that he could do for me. That's just the kind of guy he is. He looks at me like I am just as much as a human being as he is. So now if I was veiwed by another from the dock sitting in the hot tub, could it look un proffessional? I think our boss would be offended if we were to live on this boat in fear of using it's benifiets and enjoying the resources it has to offer. I would have to believe offending the owner would be the real un proffesionalism.

[Crewagency]

I followed this thread with interest and also want to say something.
In this and the last year it was very difficult for me to find the RIGHT crew for some of my clients. We had many exchanges of crew. I also think that in the next year with all this new launches from big and bigger yachts we will be in need of around 2000 new crew on board with all this new regulations, certificates and papers in the pocket. In my opinion the training schools produce crew in the moment and did not really teach them for the future job. So for experienced crew it is not a problem to find a job also if they get fired from the past job and will maybe get a new job on the neighbour yacht at once.

I am also sure that only a few owners wants the crew using the Hot Tub, the owners car, Jetski, Tenders, Drinks out of the owners bar and all areas instead of only the crew areas on board. They dont spend millions for their toys to make the crew happy.Lucky for thoose who find an owner who allows this. Teena is right when she says that a Jetski test takes 5 minutes and not half a day to have fun and 50 ltr of fuel and 5 running hours on the engine.
Also the Owners have to think more about a good rotation solution for the whole crew and not only for the engineers.

Also the salarys are high enough in the moment that the Crew will be able to rent a Jetski or to take a drink in a bar on shore or to go for a massage on shore.

I think if an owner gives one finger the crew will take the whole arm and thanks this with collecting backhanders from all services from shore but I already opened a thread for this a time ago, with very low response

The biggest problem I think is that the Crewjob ( I work on a Yacht ) has not such a good taste instead of I work in a bank. Be sure the banker earns half of the money.

The result of all this is that we have more and more Crew from Asia, Russia and East European countrys and they work hard and always with a smile and the accomodations on board a Yacht are often better than at their home.
They also saw a job on a yacht to build up their carreer very fast and not like many others as sightseeing tour in nice destinations all over the world.

Alex

[C4ENG]

Originally Posted by Crewagency

I think if an owner gives one finger the crew will take the whole arm and thanks this with collecting backhanders from all services from shore but I already opened a thread for this a time ago, with very low response
Alex

I would have to differ with that statement. Our boat has all the toys and crap you would find on any large yacht and we can pretty much use it any time we like. Yet we hardly ever do. We can go in the sky lounge and watch the huge screen TV up there and yet you never see any of us up there. I guess it's like when you live near the beach and some one ask you how often you go to the beach and you say hardly ever becuase you know it's right there and you can go any time you want.

[Ken Bracewell]

Originally Posted by C4ENG

I would have to differ with that statement. Our boat has all the toys and crap you would find on any large yacht and we can pretty much use it any time we like. Yet we hardly ever do. We can go in the sky lounge and watch the huge screen TV up there and yet you never see any of us up there. I guess it's like when you live near the beach and some one ask you how often you go to the beach and you say hardly ever becuase you know it's right there and you can go any time you want.

Agreed. Same on my boat. I think CrewAgency and Teena have a jaded view of crew. It can be a hassle for us to take the toys down, run them (sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 2 hours), put them back up, wash and flush them. But that is our job.
As far as "backhanders" are concerned. Maybe it is only because of my honest attitude, but in ten years I have only ever been offered a kickback once (which I rejected and reported to the owner as it was his contact). I hope that I am the norm rather than the exception. If I were an owner and had the same view of crew that has been portrayed by some of the previous posts, I would get out of boating. That can't be good for anyone (except maybe the other owners who would get a better deal on the surplus of used boats). Let's all be happy and honest.

[airship]

The "Crewagency view"

There's so much in Crewagency's post which I find ignominious (or should that be igneous?) that I simply had to register immediately in order to respond...

I also think that in the next year with all this new launches from big and bigger yachts we will be in need of around 2000 new crew on board with all this new regulations, certificates and papers in the pocket. In my opinion the training schools produce crew in the moment and did not really teach them for the future job.

Well, you literally said it: no amount of certificates or papers truly prepares someone for working aboard a luxury yacht. But that was already known 20 years ago when some professional crewing agencies began recruiting officers and ratings from the merchant marine. These new skippers may have been master mariners but, boy oh boy, could they scratch up a yacht no end when berthing (no tugs in attendance, you see)...?! But I'm not attacking these guys, in time, (once they'd mastered the art of manoeuvering smaller vessels) they became a welcome addition to large yacht crews. But let's not forget: the reason for these insufficiently-experienced newcomers was a combination of owners who wanted a cheaper crew and some agencies' cravings to satisfy that demand...

I am also sure that only a few owners wants the crew using the Hot Tub, the owners car...

...and you should have stopped there in order to preserve your credibility IMHO. Because you might as well have extended to your list of verbotten items of not using the owner's jetski, tender etc., to other stuff like dive gear, water-skiing and other misc. water-toys; ensuring that the stewards and stewardesses are not allowed to play with all the electronic gadgets in the salon and guest cabins?! After all, properly-trained yacht crews have already received all necessary skills in order to operate the fun stuff that owners like to have aboard in order to amuse themselves as well as their guests... The owner automatically knows which button to press in order to watch his favourite satTV station right - the deckhand taking out a group of kids on a banana obviously received the necessary training before being recommended by the crew agency?! In my view, there is a huge difference between the use and abuse of facilities and equipment by the crew. In the example of the abuse of the swimming pool aboard M/Y ICE suggested by Teenna, the photos show 2 (out of how many crew aboard) using the swimming pool. As far as I'm aware, the crew are allowed use of the pool when the owner is not aboard that particular yacht. And much as some people would have you believe, I don't believe that most owners have to fear that whilst they're away, that their crews are using the master stateroom for wild orgies or anything remotely similar. And let's just hope that these sorts of events mainly reside in the far-flung wildest fantasies of those responsible for crew recruitment...?!

"lots of ranting about bankers earning half the wage, backhanders etc..."

Be sure that the banker has the bank holiday as a day off, as well as every weekend...?! As far as the backhander situation is concerned, it was undoubtedly widely prevalent 10 to 20 years ago, when perhaps the majority of skippers demanded them (though some of these skippers tended to use them in order to pay for all the unaccountable services required by a large yacht in foreign ports. Tell me, Crewagency, how do you account for the quite illegal practice of employing dayworkers in order to ensure the fast-turnaround of a busy charter yacht? Or paying off the port official to ensure a berth at the required time and place? Could a (European) crew agency ever be held responsible for paying (or at least ensuring) that social security charges are deducted for EU crews? If an engineer is employed on an older yacht, one day has to fix a leak in the exhaust which might entail digging out all sorts of obnoxious materials to get at the leak, then 25 years later starts suffering from asbestosis, just who is going to be responsible - the offshore company owner, the yacht broker or perhaps the crew agency?! Guess who might still be operating and...hope you've got good insurance cover?!

The result of all this is that we have more and more Crew from Asia, Russia and East European countrys and they work hard and always with a smile and the accomodations on board a Yacht are often better than at their home.

What I won't dispute is that they are definitely cheaper. And, let me guess...they're probably more likely than some other crews, to think twice about giving anyone a "bit of lip" in the face of authority...or consider complaining to anyone about any injustices?! And a big "NO": I don't think that they always smile or that their on-board accommodations are "better than what they have at home"...in fact, what an outrageous generalisation?! "YES", I know firsthand of some simply outstanding Ukranian, Filipino and Indian / Pakistani crew in various positions who would put to shame 2/3rds of their more traditional Anglo-Saxon yacht crew counterparts...! And I can readily believe that their sacrifices for working so far away from home and family (BTW, whichever crew agency that came up with contracts that ensured the ex. Gurkhas who were engaged on one 55m motor yacht only went home once every 3 years, deserves a special award...?! ), do afford them a substantially better lifestyle "back home" even (or especially) when compared to their 1st World brethren...

They also saw a job on a yacht to build up their carreer very fast and not like many others as sightseeing tour in nice destinations all over the world.

You're obviously someone relatively new to yachting Crewagency?! Because otherwise, you would already have known that the bulk of those who worked aboard yachts until a few years ago did so precisely because it offered them the means to see a bit of the world and earn some pocket-money whilst doing so. In those days of course, owners (there weren't too many crew agencies or yacht managers back then) and their families actually appeared to appreciate having "free spirits" including well-educated guys and gals taking a break from more serious stuff joining them on their vacations. In those days, the only way to convince anyone to stay on was to promise them the skipper's job for the next year after having been the deckie for just one season...

[Crewagency]

First of all welcome to the forum Airship.

I dont want to convict anyone here.
Yes I am new in this business and did it only for the past 6 years now with close contacts to many owners , captains and crew on board different yachts all over the world.
It is also only my view of the yachting scene in the moment and hopefully something will change in the future.
We need good and professional crew that is for sure and we all are in the bond to teach and select them carefully and also to make sure that they will get covered by insurance and get a contract in their hands.
It is also necessary that they pay for social security. I think that is also one reason for many commercial crew to put an eye in the yachting business to collect the salary in cash.

Do you think that providing an envelope to the harbourmaster is the right way to get a nice berth in a busy season ? or to sign an invoice 20% higher to ensure that the service guy will come also next time to your boat ? etc.etc.

[Teenna]

I have to say that mostly american crew and captains defended their right to use the yacht as if it belonged to them. The explanations and clarifications why a crew should do that is far beyond my understanding and if i was the owner i would have cleared the line immediatly with my captain.

I wonder if this phenomeno lies in the fact that being a crew on a yacht (rather than on a cruise ship or on a comercial ship) is considered a fun job, a "dude" stuff... well, it's not. There is no difference between the "crew" running a house of 10.000sqf somewhere on Sardegna or St. Vincent or a private yacht.

And this is why I can't stand a situation like the one I described when starting this thread. It's somethimes pathetic, how crew enjoys the part of the "cake of the rich". let's be honest about one thing: crew is not rich. They don't belong to the world of the rich ones because they run a yacht. They are belonging to the class of the servants, perhaps to the one of the most evident examples of the remaining domination of the rich over the poor.

What do you think owners talk about with their friends when talking about the crew? How great the guys are? OR THEY ARE CONVINCED THAT THE CREW IS A INEVITABLE PARASITE FORM that unfortunatelly comes with the yacht.

And on the other hands, using things that are not yours and touching with a finger the glitter of the famous and rich is pathetic. It's like taking a car of the boss to the carwash and meanwhile (puting on a nice "dude" pair of sun glasses) making a little detour around the places and play the rich. it's sad.

I totaly support crewagency and I add to all this: preserving a dignity is the hardest of all the jobs, because paralel to the job itself. Refusing to be puppets requires a great deal of seriosity, and that is why an english butler is still an example of the biggest snob. Surely bigger that his boss.

[sailronin]

This is an interesting thread...
I believe that there are abuses in the industry. Several times I've seen crew bring unauthorized guests aboard boats, having parties etc. without captain's permission. Of course this should not happen and like all else aboard is a reflection of the captain. Much depends on the owner's wishes, one owner I worked for said "You live here, be responsible and you may have guests aboard for dinner or lunch". Other owners have said "no guests aboard", that then is written into the crew agreement which my crew signs upon hire.
No one who spend much time in this industry thinks they are rich. Most believe that we are fortunate to be in the positions we hold and go to great lengths to provide outstanding service to our owners and guests without being subservient.

On the other hand, the use of tenders (in fact many yachts have crew tenders), jet skis etc. is generally not a problem. In fact on the majority of yachts the jet skis and tenders are under-used rather than over used. My last boat I had to assign someone to take the jet skis out once a month, none of the crew wanted to "play" with them, it was just another work assignment. You ride a jet ski for 30 minutes and spend an hour and a half on set up and break down/clean up. And to be clear, you will find and prevent more problems in 30 minutes of use than 5 or 10 minutes of running it on deck as most of the "jet ski"/ waverunners allow only idle when they are being flushed (only cooling water is provided by flush hose, not pump water). Same for the tender. It is FAR better to use a few gallons of gas than to have a toy not working when the owner wants to use it.

It sounds as if some on this forum have had bad experiences with crew. If that was the general feeling with owners I doubt our industry would be growing. Owners need to enjoy yachting, yacht ownership and their crew. If owning a yacht is a cause of constant worry about people (including crew) taking advantage of them or mis treating their investment the wealthy will find other things to do with their free time.

Dave