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What to pay the crew?

 
 
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Old 03-12-2010, 06:50 AM   #76 (permalink)
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80 % of the time they are "off" duty...and sleep for free...Name:  IMG_0430.JPG
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Size:  79.3 KB Such a privilege.
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:06 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by scott49
Your the Captain and you have a mate, on a 110' boat? How many crew do you run? Why would you need a mate on that size of boat?

way back when...i can remember every boat at the dock 37' to 45' had someone that was paid to run the boat.....then for some strange reason, boats got bigger and crews got smaller.
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:21 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by saltysenior
way back when...i can remember every boat at the dock 37' to 45' had someone that was paid to run the boat.....then for some strange reason, boats got bigger and crews got smaller.
That strange reason is American tax law. When a boat was a 100% write-off for marketing expense, every small business owner had a "yacht" on the smaller size, so the owner could get tanked with his customers/clients/prospects aboard and the captain would run the boat (his salary also being a write-off for the business).
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:29 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Reminders are always good

This thread reminds some of us how important it is to have additional qualified crew, paid or unpaid. It is amazing to me to watch how understaffed some very large vessels are in our local waters.

And of course all those who truly believe they can single hand their own boats without risk!
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:58 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sgawiser
This thread reminds some of us how important it is to have additional qualified crew, paid or unpaid. It is amazing to me to watch how understaffed some very large vessels are in our local waters.

And of course all those who truly believe they can single hand their own boats without risk!
A wise and experienced Captain has seen too much "could be fatal" issues arise to know better then single hand a boat or yacht. I've lost steering, had an engine fire, had a generator melt the wiring on the gennie end and cloud the entire generator room with smoke, to losing the controls, you name it. In those situations the mate was worth 100x his pay for the day. Yet, I see Captains load a 65' yacht on a freightor single handed, or run across an ocean by themselves, and all sorts of crazy things. I'm very good as a Captain, but I'm also being hired for my knowledge and judgement and know that anything can and eventually will happen.

My grandfather's neighbor used to take his 25' Mako center console out all of the time by himself fishing on good days. One day he went out on a calm day, never came home, they found the boat 2 days later off of North Carolina. The life insurance company took 7 years to pay the wife because they didn't have a body, the wife in the meantime lost the house and everything they owned because she was a housewife and didn't have any job skills to get a good paying job.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:35 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Capt J
You need a mate or deckhand on any size yacht if you're travelling, it is not safe nor prudent to run anything single handed. Depending on the owner's needs, you could need a full time mate in addition to a FT Captain on something as small as a 55' Sportfish if you're travelling and fishing a lot.

Yeah, you could get away with a deckhand on some 110's, but if you're doing any travelling, you need someone knowledgable to take the helm from time to time and stand competant watches as well as knowing navigation and the rules of the road, so they should have a license. If you're towing a center console as a tender it would be very prudent to have a licensed Mate that can operate the tender because there will be times that he/she will be. Especially when entering harbors and such in rough weather where you need to unhook the tender and bring it in seperately.

I worked on a 100' as an almost licensed mate (was waiting on getting my license back from the USCG). We ran a very light crew, Captain, (me)Mate/deckhand, and a stew/chef. We once did a 36 hour non-stop trip with the captain and I switching off 4 hours on, 4 hours off. It was exhausting and I wouldn't do that as Captain and would have had more crew and a proper rotation of 4 hours on 8 hours off.

Sorry to get away from crew pay. What I did not under stand is on a 110' why would you need a Mate? I would think 3 to 4 crew would be plenty. Captain, Deckhand, stew, and cook. (maybe cook/stew) To me a Mate is needed when you get up over 140'. I guess I under stand now, knowing Henning said his boat is meant to travel.

And yes when ever we do longer non-stop trips we put on extra crew.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:42 AM   #82 (permalink)
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It s not just the size it s the layout and how the boat is used. If you run longer passages then you need a properly trained and licensed mate
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:14 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by scott49
Sorry to get away from crew pay. What I did not under stand is on a 110' why would you need a Mate? I would think 3 to 4 crew would be plenty. Captain, Deckhand, stew, and cook. (maybe cook/stew) To me a Mate is needed when you get up over 140'. I guess I under stand now, knowing Henning said his boat is meant to travel.

And yes when ever we do longer non-stop trips we put on extra crew.
Well it depends on how a mate is defined. On a 140' + the mate basically is the manager of the deckhand and exterior of the vessel. On a smaller boat the difference is that the mate is or can be technically the deckhand or does it all.......but is licensed......and on a smaller boat.......under say 90' nobody really uses the term deckhand and the person is called a mate and can be licensed or unlicensed and still generally called a mate......

But like Pascal said, it really depends on the layout and the usage. For example, on a 75' Hatteras MY, I felt comfortable running one person on watch at a time with a crew of 4 for a 2 1/2 day ocean crossing. 3 hours on 9 hours off because you never need to go outside on a weather deck, and the crew quarters and engine room are within 20 seconds from the lower helm if you need to wake someone up (you could even yell from the helm and someone will come up) or do an ER check, you are never outside. On a 109' Johnson I play relief captain on, we have to run 2 crew per shift, because you have to walk on a weather deck to get to both the crew quarters, engine room, and fuel transfer switches. So it takes almost 2 minutes round trip from the helm. I don't feel comfortable running 1 person if they ever have to walk on a weather deck at night for any reason or you cannot wake someone else up without leaving the helm. A long of long range trawlers will have a bunk or bed in the pilot house for that reason, you can run less crew per shift, yet someone is right there if you need them.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:46 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Capt J
Well it depends on how a mate is defined. On a 140' + the mate basically is the manager of the deckhand and exterior of the vessel. On a smaller boat the difference is that the mate is or can be technically the deckhand or does it all.......but is licensed......and on a smaller boat.......under say 90' nobody really uses the term deckhand and the person is called a mate and can be licensed or unlicensed and still generally called a mate......

But like Pascal said, it really depends on the layout and the usage. For example, on a 75' Hatteras MY, I felt comfortable running one person on watch at a time with a crew of 4 for a 2 1/2 day ocean crossing. 3 hours on 9 hours off because you never need to go outside on a weather deck, and the crew quarters and engine room are within 20 seconds from the lower helm if you need to wake someone up (you could even yell from the helm and someone will come up) or do an ER check, you are never outside. On a 109' Johnson I play relief captain on, we have to run 2 crew per shift, because you have to walk on a weather deck to get to both the crew quarters, engine room, and fuel transfer switches. So it takes almost 2 minutes round trip from the helm. I don't feel comfortable running 1 person if they ever have to walk on a weather deck at night for any reason or you cannot wake someone else up without leaving the helm. A long of long range trawlers will have a bunk or bed in the pilot house for that reason, you can run less crew per shift, yet someone is right there if you need them.
All quite true, but there are issues there, the first a personal thing the second a legal/rules one.

To me, Mate is a licensed position. There's a heck of a lot of people in the yacht industry with a couple of months experience that call themselves mates with no credentials. Technically, the mate should be able to take the captains position, both legally and physically in case of incapacitation.

The other is that the RoRs, both COLREGS & US Inland state that there shall be a lookout with no other duties. It has been determined by IMO and in a couple of court findings that a person at the helm does not qualify as lookout because he has other duties (navigating and driving the boat). The issue is a bit muddied in the US because down in the GoM the CG has said that the person on watch may also serve as the lookout in order to allow for reduced manning on oilfild boats. This has been a long standing point of contention between IMO, insurance companies and the USCG 8th district. In practicality, it works out, but when the feces hits the air flow device and winds up in front of a jury, the rules are plainly written so large awards are issued, and insurance companies try to weasel out of paying. It's been kind of a mess in the oilfield for quite a while, and last I heard there were some changes in it to be made.
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:27 PM   #85 (permalink)
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All quite true, but there are issues there, the first a personal thing the second a legal/rules one.

To me, Mate is a licensed position. There's a heck of a lot of people in the yacht industry with a couple of months experience that call themselves mates with no credentials. Technically, the mate should be able to take the captains position, both legally and physically in case of incapacitation.

The other is that the RoRs, both COLREGS & US Inland state that there shall be a lookout with no other duties. It has been determined by IMO and in a couple of court findings that a person at the helm does not qualify as lookout because he has other duties (navigating and driving the boat). The issue is a bit muddied in the US because down in the GoM the CG has said that the person on watch may also serve as the lookout in order to allow for reduced manning on oilfild boats. This has been a long standing point of contention between IMO, insurance companies and the USCG 8th district. In practicality, it works out, but when the feces hits the air flow device and winds up in front of a jury, the rules are plainly written so large awards are issued, and insurance companies try to weasel out of paying. It's been kind of a mess in the oilfield for quite a while, and last I heard there were some changes in it to be made.
I agree that a second person should usually be there, more so at night then the daytime. However, in that position I had 1 person scheduled at the helm and there almost always was a second person awake and keeping the person company. Sometimes on the smaller yachts you just don't have the crew to do that. Honestly to run a two person watch and everyone to get enough time off (which is also a rule when running multiple days) you'd need a crew of 6 of which on some of the smaller yachts you don't have the bunks for or funds. On a USCG documented pleasure vessel, I would assume what the USCG states for manning purposes would be the one to follow.
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:45 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Capt J
I agree that a second person should usually be there, more so at night then the daytime. However, in that position I had 1 person scheduled at the helm and there almost always was a second person awake and keeping the person company. Sometimes on the smaller yachts you just don't have the crew to do that. Honestly to run a two person watch and everyone to get enough time off (which is also a rule when running multiple days) you'd need a crew of 6 of which on some of the smaller yachts you don't have the bunks for or funds. On a USCG documented pleasure vessel, I would assume what the USCG states for manning purposes would be the one to follow.

I agree, I was just pointing out an issue, and the USCG 8th district sees things differently from 5th and 7th district as well as IMO. As far as that goes, it only applies to vessels operating on a COI. What matters to a pleasure boat is what is written in the rules and how a jury is convinced to interpret that. I run single handed and 2 person crew on smaller (<75') boats frequently, it just carries a higher risk.
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:31 PM   #87 (permalink)
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How much compensation for a full time captain depends on many things. The amount of cash per year is important, but as important is if you get along with that person, you trust that person, and the non cash side of the equation. I'm full time on a 65 Sportfish for a private owner, no other crew unless needed. I do everything basically- replace, repair, fix, clean, wax, drive, supply, submit expenses, manage, etc. I have a 401K, health & life insurance, flights to see my family often and as needed and bonuses. I'm well above the 1000 per foot and get along with my owner super. While our schedule is not overly heavy I have little down time to chill. There is ALWAYS something which needs attention. I got my first ticket in 1994, and I would need quite a bit more money to change jobs, and the money part is secondary to me. This is from someone in the category you'd be looking to hire (if I was available), not a bigger boat guy who is out of work, nor a less experienced person looking to move up. I worked in a top manufacturer's yard for three years as a mechanic/captain immediately previous to now, and being able to "fix" the systems on the boat can never be over estimated. Just this week I had a high pressure steering line fail while fishing. I repaired it and restored steering while underway in less than 15 minutes. Marmot, Capt J, Henning and NYCAP all have excellent points, so read them all and come to your own conclusion.
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