[Ken Bracewell]

I have to say that I feel this captain was in the wrong. I say this because the yacht owner says he had a bad experience in the past, so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt in that he made his rules clear to the captain. While I probably wouldn't accept a job with these strict rules in place, the captain did. Therefore, it seems as if he may have been deceptive in his practices.

Now for my advice... re-think this rule. It isn't uncommon for crew to be allowed to bring family or a spouse (or significant other) as an extra hand on such deliveries. I've even been allowed to have family members in guest cabins during down times when they were nothing other than guests.

[CaptTom]

I feel that the captain needs to follow the guides or rules set forth by the owner. I have had owners (on smaller boats) that allowed for guests to cruise with me (not as deckhands), but at my expense. They would also let me use the vessel and stay aboard which also helps keep an eye on things.
I'm sure the owner who is a lawyer may be more concerned with the liability aspects (and insurance coverage) in case someone is injured or worse while aboard his vessel. Imagine being the captain, and your parent or loved one gets critically injured in an accidient while aboard and you have no coverage because the insurance company will not pay because you were not authorized to carry anyone? Owners have a lot more $$$ to fight than the captain usually does, better to follow the rules (or get off at the next port).

[Mike448]

We were recently stuck in a Florida shipyard for a couple of months, and as I was not able to take my scheduled vacation home, I decided to fly my mother out to visit. The plan was to put her up in a hotel. However, as I was working all day and needed to balance time at work with spending time with her, I asked the owner if he would object to her staying aboard for 10 days. He was more than happy to allow her to stay. This was the first time in 12 years that I have ever had anyone stay with me aboard a yacht. It went very well and the crew were happy as she helped with the cooking as our chef was away.

So the point being: I believe that if you go about it the right way, the owner is happy and it does not impact the crew, then a family visit once in a while cannot hurt. The captains sacrifice a huge amount of their personal lives for "the company", so a little give and take now or then can't hurt.

[Argosy]

This has all been an interesting discussion, but I still can't get over the deceitfulness of the owner in his initial posting. The fact that he didn't just come out and say "Hey, I'm an owner and I think my captain has wronged me, am I right?" Instead it's "I have a friend. . ." and "how many of us think it's right"... Also his comment that it "sounds like theft to me" shows his lack of understanding. It would be theft if it were something the owner would normally charge for, so is that what his problem is? If the captain had asked if he could bring his parents along would the owner have charged them charter rates? Lost revenue would have been the only real loss to the owner, other than a few bucks in groceries. Yes, even a few bucks is still theft, but the real issue is trust.

And there I do agree that the captain apparently violated the owner's trust (and possibly his contract), but then we're only hearing one side of the story, and from someone who has not been truthful right off the bat. I'm still wondering what the owner's intent was in using this forum this way. If it was as he said, that the captain disobeyed explicit instructions and the provisions of his contract, did the owner really not know what to do? He certainly would have had grounds to fire the captain (and as a lawyer, of course he knew that), or if he was otherwise satisfied with the captain and actually wanted to keep him, then a good heart-to-heart would have been in order. But instead he comes here to get the opinions of his "peers". I dunno, I'm not trying to defend the captain, but this doesn't sound like an owner I'd want to work for!

P.S. This is a great forum, and I appreciate the good job of moderating done by YachtForums Publisher to expose posts like this one. -Thanks!

[aeronautic1]

On the one hand, I can see the owner's point. If it truly was discussed during the pre-employement interview and the captain elected to ignore the instructions of the owner, then the captain is at fault. Remember, who owns the boat and writes the checks. It's his boat.

If the captain had full autonomy to hire and fire crew, then it was within his authority to purvey additional watchstanders for an extensive transit from Florida to the Caribbean. I have in fact hired my father and my brother to work for me, temporarily, for transits to the Panama Canal and to Guam. Of course, I had informed the owner of the addition and reason.

What seems to me here was a either a disrespect for the owner's wishes or a complete breakdown in the owner/captain relationship. Communication, therefore, is paramount to affect a professional, and respected relationship.

[Captronlepard]

Before my father passed away I brought him along for rides as crew. Although the owners were always aware of who was onboard and they rightfully should. My dad came on as delivery crew and it was appreciated by all parties. Owner gets a little extra help at no cost, father gets a cruise, Captain gets to spend time with his father.

[Birdseye]

I am sure that there had to be a mis-communication somewhere between the owner and the Captain. His parents were clearly there as delivery crew, which I would always be happy to see, but why did the owner not know???? What would that Captain gain by not telling him? Maybe this owner is so bad that the Captain felt he had to do this without telling him....???? I'm not so sure, I feel certain there must be a break down of communications between the owner and Captain somewhere. It is a shame we are not hearing both sides of the story.
I would always be happy for my Captain to take his parents on a delivery, these people work for months, sometimes years without seeing their family and what better way of making sure they deliver my yacht safely than by having the masters family on-board.
The owners comments on the chef cooking for them lost him/her any credibility from me. That is just splitting hairs in a situation that really is nothing.
It sounds like this owner needs to start respecting and trusting his crew. Of my experience of crew, they are hard working honest people, that aren't scared of a bit of hard labour and very long hours, but one thing they always need is respect from the owner. You always know the yachts that don't have this respect because they will be the yachts with high crew turn over and maybe 3-4 captains a year.
Something owners tend to forget is that these Captains have invested alot of time and money into what they do, as a lawyer he/she should understand that, and they chose this field of work because they enjoy it. I'm yet to meet a Captain who does this job just for the money, although I'm sure some do. If they do this because they enjoy it, then get a bad a owner they will move on. I will put money on it that this Captain is now looking for a new job, weather he was fired or not, they don't and shouldn't have to deal with this.

[Seafarer]

The comment on the chef cooking for 2 extra people is petty. It's very telling that this owner would take the view "they got a free cruise" rather than "I got free crew."

Not the kind of person that earns respect, nor deserves it.

[aeronautic1]

Amen, Seafarer.

[Capt J]

Originally Posted by yachtttty

Let me be clear. For whatever reason, the administrator of this site immediately assumed that since I am an attorney, i was trying to dredge up a lawsuit, which is not what I'm trying to do. I indeed am an attorney, but I am also an owner of several yachts. I posted because I am legitimately trying to get industry standard information. My yacht cost me in excess of eight million dollars. I hired a captain and entrusted him with my boat. He was to move it down to the Carribean for my use and perhaps for charter work. When he was hired, he was instructed by me and my assistant that no unauthorized individuals were to be aboard. I had previously had problems with my other yacht where my captain had his children aboard while I was present and when I wasn't, without asking permission or even informing me. So, I found out that on the trip to the carribean, and for several days there, my captain had his parents aboard. I never knew about this, and was never asked if it was ok. My chef fed these folks daily. Now, this may be industry standard, or it may not be. I am not in the industry. I don't think so, and the reason for this post was to make sure my gut is right.

I pretty much agree with everyone else on this topic.

Just by reading what you wrote, I would never work for an owner like you. The whole sentence about the chef cooking for these people is extremely petty. If it is indeed an $8 million yacht and you're worried about food for 2 people, you really need to step back to reality because the amount in money in food is totally negligable. It's like an owner that gives the crew a cheap food budget, they resent nothing more then that. Because while they are away from home for months, working their butt off to keep the owner and guests happy, they should at least be able to eat what they want and well. Also, we as Captain's don't really care about "my yacht cost me in excess of $8 million dollars". Your a very small fish in a big pond these days. We could go from your $8 million yacht to running a $20 million yacht...... it's apples to apples, the monetary value of the yacht means nothing. Having the proper amount of crew, the proper budget to maintain the yacht, and safely run the vessel means everything.

80% of the owners out there are extremely gracious and go out of their way for their Captains, both monetarily and in other bonuses whether it be time off, use of the owners planes etc. I no longer choose to work fulltime for one owner, but own a Yacht Management business that does very well. I do deliveries because I want to do them, otherwise I am home every night. While I never abuse a situation, I will never work for an owner who is not very gracious to me and pays well, and an owner that does not treat me like a member of his family. If you're not a good owner, you will not get a good captain. Because a good Captain will have several other good owners that would hire him on a phone call. Most owners are also very agreeable to letting a Captain take family members (a few, not a bunch) or a friend or two on a delivery if owners and guests are not on-board.

I think that the Captain should have informed you that is parents would be on-board. I think that the Captain felt he couldn't and you wouldn't allow it. It's one thing to have your parents on board, it's another thing to have 3 whores. I really think judging by your statements, that you do not give the Captain the respect he deserves and also that he feels he cannot completely talk to you about all things relating to the vessel.

[NYCAP123]

This lawyer is looking for validation of answers he already has. As for the captain, this is a business of reputations so that will sort itself out. It sounds like he wants to charge the captain rent though, and as an attorney he already knows that he can't create a contract after the fact where none existed so quit chasing ambulances, tell your friends not to use that captain and get back to life.

[luckylg]

Originally Posted by Capt J

I will never work for an owner who is not very gracious to me and pays well, and an owner that does not treat me like a member of his family. If you're not a good owner, you will not get a good captain.

I have an employee who is fond of the phrase, "you can pay me like $hit or treat me like $hit; not both." I treat him like a king

The ethic of this is relatively simple. The agreement (as represented here by yachtttty is that the owner instructed the captain as to the operation of the vessel. No unauthorized passengers. That breach is a violation of their agreement and a potential exposure to excessive and unwanted liability so I would have no problem with the captain being discharged on those grounds.

That said, the owner needs to get a grip on reality. Having a problem with another captain who (apparently) disrespected his vessel does not mean he will have a problem with every other captain. In my (limited) experience most captains are very respectful of the owners and their vessels. Doing a reasonable job of reference and background checking will answer most questions as to past problems. Putting strict visiting limits on the person you've entrusted with the care and custody of your $8 million boat is beyond petty. Nobody needs that job, and you better pay him like a king.

[Ken Bracewell]

Originally Posted by luckylg

I treat him like a king

How do you pay him???