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Day Captains - Food for thought

 
 
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:45 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dennismc
Well. if you think 10.00 hr is too little for boat washing, then the most successful auto company in the world is also paying too little "Toyota" perhaps you would prefer the Government to subsidize the US auto industry so they could become more lazy and inefficient and have their exec's overpaid, just like the banks and many many others who have gotten the US and many other Countries into the mess they are in by overpaying for inefficient and un productive labour and products. If someone decides do work outside the usual system and work only for cash then all he is doing is what millions of others are doing. I would rather pay him cash than have him on social assistance, after all, the tax is being paid by me. This is not scab work as you suggest, this is free enterprise , something you feel is unworthy.
The market will either look after itself or be subsidized by taxpayers like me. GM and Chrysler are perfect examples of Management and employess screwing the Company into bankruptcy and then getting the true hard working taxpayer to bail them out. The proof of the pudding is staring you in the face.
Actually, $10 an hour with no benefits is substandard even when a company provides 40 hours of work per week (as opposed to the 5 hours e/o week you pay this guy for and then don't care if he eats the rest of the week). If you are paying him cash he most likely is on social assistance unless he lives under a bridge and that tax is also being paid by me except that I don't get a clean boat for it. If he is not charging the prevailing rate for the area it is indeed scab labor which is a very dangerous thing for both employee and employer. The wages paid to the GM workers is not what got them into trouble. It was the premiums charged by insurance companies and pension fund administrators for the benefits that enabled the workers to have a roof over their heads and a doctor for their kids. I have yet to meet a line worker who lives in a McMansion or owned a 70' yacht. You still haven't mentioned what the prevailing rate is to wash a 70' yacht in your area. I remember Vancouver as being a very cosmopolitan city with a high standard of living. Has it changed?
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:17 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Well I live in Canada and I have to tell you that I pay a retired couple $50 a week to wash my 44 Viking and that is considered very resonable in the former automobile capital of canada.
I know for a fact that Vancouvers COL is one of the highest so if I were you I'd keep that boy (note I said boy) happy.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:31 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Well I live in Canada and I have to tell you that I pay a retired couple $50 a week to wash my 44 Viking and that is considered very resonable in the former automobile capital of canada.
I know for a fact that Vancouvers COL is one of the highest so if I were you I'd keep that boy (note I said boy) happy.
That's for a couple supplementing their pensions on 1/3 the boat and you evidently know you have a very fair deal. If I were paying someone $50 to care for a 70' yacht I'd invest my savings in a real good alarm system.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:14 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Funny, but my wife and I also look after a 44' Viking (and a 54' Viking, and a 55' Azimut, and 54' Ocean, and a 36' Hinckley, and a 38' Shelter Island Runabout, and 44' Sea Ray, and a 29' Sea Ray, and a 30' Regulator, and ... you get the point).

We clean the interior, keep the outside washed/waxed, 210 the EZ2CY windows, keep the varnish, etc. For the inside clean and outside wash we charge about $200/week.

Basic free enterprise: if you don't like what we charge, get someone else. Seems to be working as this is our 9th year with this client and he constantly reminds us how happy he is and how good we keep his 22 year old boat looking.

Maybe you'd like the consistency of having the same normal, grounded, happy, healthy, well-fed team to call upon to help you in keeping your boat. Maybe not, that's OK too. There are plenty of boats, plenty of work to go round.

Quite honestly, we see lots of other "professional" boat care takers. These usually consist of one guy sitting up in his truck making calls and emailing and a bunch of latinos doing the work (please, I'm not knocking latinos here). The only way I can think of that they make any money is by paying these guys lots less than what we get. They have to be as they charge less to begin with.

In another case, the workers aren't latinos, just a bunch of young people who couldn't really care less as it's not a job they're going to do for more than one summer anyway. That's OK with us, too, as those boat owners' main concern is how much they're paying and not worrying about how the workers are making a living.

It's making a living we're talking about here. We do this work b/c we prefer it to working in an office somewhere. We do this work b/c we get to do lots of different tasks all related to boating (we both teach scuba - I've got over 4,000 dives, my wife over 750) and feel good about ourselves b/c we've built successful relationships that now span more than a few years.

To be quite honest, if you're paying someone 50 bucks for something that takes more than an hour, you can't really be concerned for their well being in that they really can't be making enough money to live on. I don't care what the "COL" in Vancouver is, your boat washer is clearly not making any headway towards retirement.

As for the "retired" couple cleaning your 44' Viking, well, my 72 year old Mom works "off the books" out of sheer boredom and I know the money is not even a concern as she has what she needs. If your people are working for the same reason, then, bravo as everyone is getting something out of the deal.

If they're working b/c they NEED the money, then you should be ashamed of yourself.

But hey, free enterprise, right?
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:40 PM   #35 (permalink)
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How easy it is to judge without being in possession of all the facts !!! and the American was not an ex pat, just enjoying his 3.5 million brand new MY, obviously slumming in Vancouver.
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:57 PM   #36 (permalink)
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How easy it is to judge without being in possession of all the facts !!! and the American was not an ex pat, just enjoying his 3.5 million brand new MY, obviously slumming in Vancouver.
He can afford a brand new $3.5m yacht and he would take advantage of a poor man and have him work all day in the hot sun or lousy weather for...I'm still waiting to hear what the prevailing rate is in Vancouver....so I'll guess about the same as here which would be about $250 for a 70 motoryacht....which makes it 20% of the prevailing rate. Guess he feels that he pulled off a pretty schrewd business deal saving $200. Heck he should have some kobe steak to celebrate. That is very easy to judge.
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Old 08-04-2009, 12:36 AM   #37 (permalink)
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How easy it is to judge without being in possession of all the facts !!! and the American was not an ex pat, just enjoying his 3.5 million brand new MY, obviously slumming in Vancouver.
Well, if it's a brand new $3.5 million MY, why doesn't he have a fulltime Captain like his insurance would require, unless he has A LOT of experience.

I would be embaressed to pay someone $50 in Vancouver of all places, to wash a 70' MY. Then again it takes $5 of the wrong cleaner to damage $10,000 in paint or teak in about 30 seconds sometimes. You get what you pay for. If you're paying peanuts, then you're getting Monkeys. You sound like one of those types that gets off in succeeding in life at the expense of other's sweat.

Heck, the last time I was in Mexico, I paid a Mexican $40 US to wash a 35' Cabo FB which takes a 1/3 of the time to wash then a 70' MY and that was 2 years ago. My fulltime Mate in Belize made $125US a week and his sole job was keeping up the exterior of a 45' Cabo Express back in 2005.
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Old 08-04-2009, 01:10 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NYCAP123
Heck he should have some kobe steak to celebrate.
That is quite possible in Vancouver from what remember.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPTJ
.....if it's a brand new $3.5 million MY, why doesn't he have a fulltime Captain like his insurance would require,
Where does it say there isn't a Captain involved?

What is the difference if it is new or used if it is worth $3.5m as far as the insurance goes?
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:15 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Capt J

Just a note on differences b/t S.FL and Sag...

In S.FL you can live much more inexpensively as far as rent or even ownership. If you're a bit older (like we are) and don't want to share living arrangements, finding rent for less than $1200/month for something habitable is VERY difficult.

Now buying is another story. South Florida has always had deals if you were willing to travel minutes or so. Well, we live in Hampton Bays which is 20 miles (30 minutes which is, thankfully, HALF the time it took up til 2 years ago when a major road alteration cleared a major bottleneck) from Sag Harbor and a starter home AFTER the GREAT RECESSION is still in the mid 300's!!

You CAN NOT find anything less.

Add that to a much shorter season (5 months at the outside) and you have a very tight model for trying to survive.

More later...
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:20 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Sagharborskip:

Lets back it up here Skip.

To start with yes they are retired and do it because they want to.
I did not set the price they did. In fact they give me a bill and I pay it, not once have I ever questioned it.
I originally chimed in because I thought the gentleman from Vancouver is getting an "exceptional" price but I'm now wondering if your recruiting for a boat cleaning union.

I find it interesting that a "full service" provider such as yourself would even try to compare yourself to some individuals who for whatever personal reasons wash boats for a living(and I use this term loosly). The last time I checked there are tons of people out there who would be happy to make $10 an hour for no brain work like washing a boat. Tell me would you pay someone $20 - $30 an hour to wash your car ( I assume it's a BMW).

Please don't compare your world in the Hamptons to the rest of the normal country.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:25 AM   #41 (permalink)
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If you're a bit older (like we are)
I see you like sleeping with one eye open. Hampton Bays happens to be one of the cheapest places to live on Long Island and $1,200 is probably a small 2 bedroom. Growing up my father taught me that 1 weeks take home should equal 1 months rent. By that formula you need to be earning $62,400 a year net. Since you have to be available for that customer who calls in January to move a boat you really can't take another job in winter that is worth anything (and who needs you anyway when you'll be gone when spring arrives). So that means you have to earn it all in 26 weeks or $2,400 a week. Since the season actually kicks only from about July 4th to Labor day it's really only about 8 weeks. So during that time you need to earn about $3,500 a week NET. Working 7 days a week that means you need $500 a day to live modestly.
Florida does have the benefit of getting a lot of dreamers who move there to follow the sun. They can afford to use them up and send them home when their reserves run out. More will come in behind them. Moving to Long Island is a very expensive proposition and people have to work where they can make a living. This year I've seen a lot of captains go into other fields and only captain on their days off. That means they don't run boats much more than the owners do. If a boat's owner has access to a good captain, boat washer, mechanic or any other trade that they need it would be a smart idea for them to make sure they are earning a decent living or very soon they'll be washing their own boat when they're not running aground or laying the boat up for the entire season as they wait for a mechanic. Some of the older folks may still remember things like Peconic Bay scallops, clams from Great South Bay and Long Island Lobsters. Pretty soon they may be fondly remembering the days of clean boats that left the dock.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:41 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Sagharborskip:

Lets back it up here Skip.

To start with yes they are retired and do it because they want to.
I did not set the price they did. In fact they give me a bill and I pay it, not once have I ever questioned it.
I originally chimed in because I thought the gentleman from Vancouver is getting an "exceptional" price but I'm now wondering if your recruiting for a boat cleaning union.

I find it interesting that a "full service" provider such as yourself would even try to compare yourself to some individuals who for whatever personal reasons wash boats for a living(and I use this term loosly). The last time I checked there are tons of people out there who would be happy to make $10 an hour for no brain work like washing a boat. Tell me would you pay someone $20 - $30 an hour to wash your car ( I assume it's a BMW).

Please don't compare your world in the Hamptons to the rest of the normal country.
Actually, to wash my '02 Hyundai now costs $20 . I do think your situation may have been misconstrued though. I have a young girl (87) walk my dog when I'm working. I've been trying to get her to take $20 but nearly have to tie her down to take $10. She likes to be needed and kept busy and to me it's a godsend having her. Even though she is happy for the job I strain my brain constantly trying to find ways to show my appreciation becuase I know the job is worth so much more and by hook or crook I'll pay what's right. Tonight I'm taking her to dinner. There is no way I could look myself in the mirror paying someone who needs to make a living $50 for taking care of a 70' , $3.5 million yacht in a place like Vancouver.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:09 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Actually, to wash my '02 Hyundai now costs $20.
Same here in Fort Lauderdale ... the car washing guys come to our parking lot and get $20 to wash outside and clean inside.

I don't begrudge them a single dollar, they earn it and it seems like a bargain to me.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:27 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Same here in Fort Lauderdale ... the car washing guys come to our parking lot and get $20 to wash outside and clean inside.

I don't begrudge them a single dollar, they earn it and it seems like a bargain to me.
That is a bargain. For that $20 I go to the drive-through. The come-to-your-house guy is $50 (and my car is not 70'). I'll use him when I can afford that BMW. Anybody ready to pay $1,000 a day for a captain or boat washer? I'm waiting patiently for your PM .
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:32 PM   #45 (permalink)
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The wages paid to the GM workers is not what got them into trouble. It was the premiums charged by insurance companies and pension fund administrators for the benefits that enabled the workers to have a roof over their heads and a doctor for their kids.
Not quite as true as you'd like to believe. The UAW forced the formerly-big three to continue to pay wages to non-working individuals (the jobs bank), in addition to paying union dues for those non-working collectors. The union dues were over 50% of the hourly take-home of the wage workers ($14 for the UAW, $25 for the paycheck, $15 for benefits and taxes).

As jobs were reduced, it was the cost of maintaining those non-workers on the books, in addition to providing them health care from retirement until death, plus a pension that really screwed GM. Why did the UAW fight to keep the jobs bank for so long? The unions were the fattest fat cats in this whole mess.

Know what the retirement package was for salaried employees? Ten years. Ten and done. No health care, no pension, no nothing come day one of year eleven. Too bad, so sad, should have planned better.


By the way, the going rate for licensed security guards in the NY/NJ/CT area is $10 an hour. The guy you're betting is going to keep theives from stealing the electronics off the boats in the marina is getting paid less than the boat washers, and not as scab labor.
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