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Mangusta 108 Experience

Discussion in 'Yacht Captains' started by mulligan, Feb 25, 2009.

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  1. mulligan

    mulligan New Member

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    I am a captain of a German owner, who would like to buy a used Mangusta 108. We have some questions for the enterprise of the ship and would be pleased, if you could answer these to me:

    We want to use the yacht as a private yacht no charter. The boat has 2 MTU's 12V 4000 M90 2750HP installed

    1. At which boat speed the yacht has the most economical fuel consumption and as highly is this per hour?

    2. How high is the fuel consumption with maximum speed?
    3. How high is youre fuel consumption per mile/hour in average during the year?
    4. How highly are average maintenance costs for the yacht approximate in the year?
    5. How is the handling of the yacht with port manoeuvres? We only want to be with a small crew on board.
    6. Is the jet drive simple to handle?
    7. Is a thruster at the stern of advantage ?
    8. Are there at your opinion things which we should especially consider with the purchase of a used Mangusta ?


    It would be a great help for us, if you can give us an idea of our questions.



    Best regards

    Kai
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Hello Kai,

    I donĀ“t have the specific figures you are asking for, but I think you must drive a jet boat to make sure you like it. A stern thruster will not be needed as you already have 5.500 hp of thrust there...
  3. These sound like typical questions from a captain, fuel consumption, cost of maintenance, a good captain concerned about spending the owner's money.

    If the boss is thinking of a 108 Mangusta with 5,500 horsepower MTUs, he must have a different concern than saving money! (MTU = empty u pockets!!)

    You might check the MTU website, you might find liters per hour at different RPM, but of course no speed curve for this boat. Some of these Mangustas can run very fast or very slow, but with not a lot of speed choices in between.

    A lot of captains would love to have such a fast yacht to cruise, good luck with it.
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    1) & 2) You'll really have to determine these specs for your individual boat or the previous owner may be able to give you an idea. However the fuel consumption for this vessel could vary as much as 50gph to 120gph or so depending on the speed you run and conditions you run in. For charter you should probably set your rate + fuel.
    3) is dependent on 1 & 2 plus how much you use it.
    4) get a copy of the vessels maintenance records.
    5) Your minimum staffing on the boat will be mandated.
    6) I would not want to learn operating with jets on a 108 ft vessel. Why not rent a waverunner or small jet boat like a yamaha , seadoo or hinkley to get a feel.
    7) jets operate as your stern thruster. Turning the buckets toward or away from the side will drive the stern toward or away. A thruster would be redundant.
  5. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    The question was how many people should be onboard to safely operate the boat. Depending on flag, there is no minimum manning requirement for a private vessel. Based on personal experience as master of a jet boat that size, I would suggest at least 2 on deck not counting the master. More is always easier, 1 on deck can be done but it can be intimidating in some conditions.

    For the same reason Formula 1 drivers don't practice with motorcycles. If you don't know the difference in handling between a large vessel with a pair of Kamewa jets and a jetski, you probably shouldn't be offering advice.

    It is different, not difficult but different. Comfort and skill comes with practice. The best way to learn is to hire an experienced jet boat handler to show you the "tricks" (there are a few) and you will be amazed at how versatile and maneuverable the boat is. You definitely do not need a stern thruster. A bow thruster and a deft hand can literally walk the boat sideways in or out of the tightest spot. You can operate in shallow water but you risk a lot of pump erosion and problems clogging heat exchangers. There is no free lunch, jets buy you a lot of benefits but you pay with maintenance and fuel. They are not suited for liesurely cruising or those who want to scrimp on preventative maintenance.
  6. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    I will be the first to admit that I'm ignorant on jets. Just curious how that extra "preventative maintenance" works out?

    Kelly Cook
  7. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I never said anything about "extra." I just said that the owner should not scrimp on preventative maintenance.

    The position feedback devices require careful attention, operation in shallow water causes rapid erosion of components in the water path and ingested objects can bend impeller blades. The bucket hydraulics will leak and should be repaired at the first sign of seal wear. Preventative maintenance is careful inspection and the repair or replacement of items before they fail.

    Erosion can cause cavitation and overspeed, impeller distortion can cause overloading and failure of the engine. Sea strainers and engine heat exchangers are subject to fouling when operating in shallow water. Looking at all that stuff is preventative maintenance.
  8. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

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    Thank you for that info. Folks often associate "jet drive" with shallow draft and shallow water ..... but !!!

    Kelly
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    You're probably right on this one Marmot. The right answer probably would have been that, from the way the questions were phrased, he may not be qualified for the job. I certainly didn't want to say it could be single handed with the owner's son to help which it could if he were good and foolish enough. It seemed that , given the experience exhibited that the charter industry's minimum manning standards would be the best direction to point him in. and I didn't think it would make any sense to say you could burn 20gph sitting at idle or maybe 200gph at WOT so I pointed him again toward the charter market. I also think someone should crawl before running and a 108' jet is not the place to learn.which is why I pointed him toward the Hinkley's or smaller as a place to learn the dynamics. But you're right. I should have said this is the wrong boat for him.
    And I hate to break it to you but I doubt if many Formula 1 drivers learned how to drive in a Formula 1 racecar. I'm thinking dad's car, motorcycles, midgets, road races, etc. probably starting with a bicycle. This fellow never ran a jet anything.
  10. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    The "charter industry" doesn't have minimum manning requirements, the flag state does. Most charter yachts are manned far above those because flag state could care less if there are two stews and a laundry girl.

    I don't believe anyone who is already running a boat would find a jet boat "wrong" for himself. That is just plain silly and is not fair to say to someone you don't know from Adam. Any moderately adept boat handler can learn to drive a jetboat in a dozen hours with a good instructor to help or can learn how to do it along with a bunch of bad habits by himself in a few dozen hours. Like anything else, finesse and style comes with a lot of practice.

    "I doubt if many Formula 1 drivers learned how to drive in a Formula 1 racecar."

    No, but they learned by driving cars.
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Lewis Hamilton the current F 1 World Champion and Michael Schumacher a seven times F 1 World Champion both started in Go Karts before they were old enough to drive cars.
  12. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Go Karts = 4 wheels, small car, a good way for a child to learn to drive and race.

    But the original statement was:

    "Formula 1 drivers don't practice with motorcycles."

    The point, regardless of how badly I attempted to make it is that telling someone to hop on a jetski to learn how to drive a 35m twin waterjet drive boat is hardly good advice.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That's called gleaning or selective reading or did you just(conveniently) miss the rest of the sentence. "6) I would not want to learn operating with jets on a 108 ft vessel. Why not rent a waverunner or small jet boat like a yamaha , seadoo or hinkley to get a feel."
    I could have added a commercial vessel where the owner isn't so worried about dings, etc., etc., etc., but I didn't think it was necessary just to illustrate that a persons 108' private yacht is NOT the place to learn how to handle jets.
  14. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I don't really care to get in a p*****g match with you 'Cap but my response was far from "selective reading." Words mean things, your words very clearly meant what anyone with average reading comprehension skills probably read, as I did.

    Just because you would not choose to learn on the vessel you would be employed to operate does not mean it is a bad idea or is not the best way to do it. I personally believe learning on that boat under the guidance of an experienced operator is the best way to learn how to operate it. Going off on a jetski is absurd for more reasons than anyone wants to read here.

    Quite frankly I could care less what you didn't add, I only responded to what you posted and I responded to the exact words and ideas you presented, nothing more, nothing less. My take on this is you have not a clue what you are talking about and your advice to the gentleman is worth what he paid for it.

    If you have some personal experience to share about how you found it more effective to learn to drive your last 35m jetboat by renting a jetski then please share it. Otherwise please stick to the things you know when people ask for advice. You obviously have a great deal of history operating small boats around Long Island Sound and New England so there are plenty of opportunities for you to contribute first hand knowledge. The questions asked in thread are not among them.

    I shared my experience on how I learned to drive a 35m jetboat and made no other assumption about the person who asked and only spoke to the issues about which I have personal knowledge and experience. I corrected obvious misstatments concerning manning regulations. If that offends you then please stop reading my posts or think about what you post before you put the cursor over the "post" button.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I've seen many captains step out of their league for the sake of getting a job. We call them Captain Crash. You do not learn by coming in as captain for someone's multi-million dollar yacht. You move up as you learn. And the theory of operating jets is the same no matter what the size. The cost of screwing up is just a whole lot bigger on a 108.
  16. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    I have seen a number of guys step onto yachts as Captain for the first time who have done an outstanding job. Two of them are probably the best boat handlers I have ever had the pleasure to sail with.

    As many will agree the day you stop learning is the day you die so if this is what you think maybe the lower end of the price range is the best place to be.

    Whilst they both work by forcing water through a nozzle, the similarity stops there. Handling a small boat with a Hamilton Jet or similar is not really comparable to handling a 108 ft twin jet boat with 5000hp under the hood

    If you as an operator take the appropriate precautions and advice from those with the correct experience, screw-ups should not happen or at least be reduced to a minimum.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Totally agree. Stepping on as captain or stepping up in size is normal. You just don't do it if you're not qualified for that vessel or at least close. Rarely will anybody even hire a cap to run a 100 footer when they don't have some similar experience. But would you really want someone taking a 12 hour lesson and then take over as captain of your 108' jet boat with "5000hp under the hood". Personally I'd rather him as 1st mate, learning over time. The thought of him getting into close quarters and sucking something in with only 12 hours of instruction and nobody on board to advise him scares me.
    Any day I haven't learned something new is a day wasted.
    Absolutely not the same. It's the baby steps. One doesn't go from flying a cesna to piloting a Lear either. There're steps.
    And that is exactly the point. Who does a captain turn to for advice when something happens that wasn't covered in 12 hours of instruction. I'm on the water over 50 years, have run boats up to 140', have captained boats up to 110', and have run some jet boats and, I'm sorry, but I would not go onto a 108' Mangusta jet as captain nor would I expect to be asked.
  18. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    So how long have you known the fellow who posted and asked for advice? You seem pretty sure he doesn't meet your standards for suitability for the job.

    And by the way, that 12 hours I tossed out arbitrarily covers the tricks of operating jets, he's already got a captain's job.

    " ... nor would I expect to be asked."

    Probably not.

    Methinks thou doth protest too much ... how come?
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I tried to answer him nicely in a way that would lead him to the right answers, but you decided to go into your usual sarcastic attack mode. So smart man, which of these questions made you feel that you would consider him qualified to run YOUR 108' jet boat with 12 hours of instruction? (And you don't throw anything out "arbitrarily" so don't back peddle.)
    1. At which boat speed the yacht has the most economical fuel consumption and as highly is this per hour?
    2. How high is the fuel consumption with maximum speed?
    3. How high is your fuel consumption per mile/hour in average during the year?
    4. How highly are average maintenance costs for the yacht approximate in the year?
    5. How is the handling of the yacht with port manoeuvres? We only want to be with a small crew on board.
    6. Is the jet drive simple to handle?
    7. Is a thruster at the stern of advantage ?
    8. Are there at your opinion things which we should especially consider with the purchase of a used Mangusta ?
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Cap,It's a dead giveaway, the guy obviously knew his limits and was just asking for the nearest Sea Doo dealer so he could book a couple of lessons.