Flats/Bay boat on deck?

Andytk5 · 02-01-2009, 08:11 PM

Hey guys, I would like to have a pathfinder or similar bay boat to go along on the deck of a Viking 68C. I would need a davit but I wanted to know how much weight can sit on the deck of this kind of boat? Are the decks reinforced enough for a bay style boat (like a pathfinder 2000 or 2200). The 20 is abt 2300# w/a 150hp and the 22 is abt 2400# w/150hp, then maybe 100-300# fuel depending on how full it would be. I know a guy who has an egret 16 w/90hp but that total is like 1500#s + 200# fuel? Any Ideas?

Also I had another question about towing a large center console behind this kind of boat. I was wondering if there is a way to do it while criusing around 20-25kts? Do people do this? Can you do it without straining the transom or engine/drivetrain or the center console's bow. Do you need some sort of stand off bar? I was considering the Everglades 320CC and I see they have a Heavy Duty Towing option in the site, not sure what that means but maybe it is for this? Any ideas or personal experience with this?
Thanks guys!

Capt J · 02-01-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andytk5

Hey guys, I would like to have a pathfinder or similar bay boat to go along on the deck of a Viking 68C. I would need a davit but I wanted to know how much weight can sit on the deck of this kind of boat? Are the decks reinforced enough for a bay style boat (like a pathfinder 2000 or 2200). The 20 is abt 2300# w/a 150hp and the 22 is abt 2400# w/150hp, then maybe 100-300# fuel depending on how full it would be. I know a guy who has an egret 16 w/90hp but that total is like 1500#s + 200# fuel? Any Ideas?

Also I had another question about towing a large center console behind this kind of boat. I was wondering if there is a way to do it while criusing around 20-25kts? Do people do this? Can you do it without straining the transom or engine/drivetrain or the center console's bow. Do you need some sort of stand off bar? I was considering the Everglades 320CC and I see they have a Heavy Duty Towing option in the site, not sure what that means but maybe it is for this? Any ideas or personal experience with this?
Thanks guys!

Putting something like a 20 or 22' Pathfinder on the deck of a 68' Viking is way too much weight up there. Plus the davit to lift it. Even if it would hold it, it would totally ruin the handling characteristics of the 68' and probably make it wetter then a submarine.

Someone makes a 16' flats boat out of carbon fiber that with motor and everything weighs about 600lbs. I believe it's made by Hells Bay or something like that. You could go with a smaller flats boat and it would fit, but would also make the Viking ride differently and usually not better.

The other option is to tow a boat which leaves the Viking clean looking and not cluttered. It is not a problem to tow a CC at 20-25 knots or even faster behind the 68' Viking. You need a reinforced tow eye on the center console (or bay boat), a spectrabraid harness, and not too much else. UMT in Ft. Lauderdale makes rigs just for that purpose. There is a thread on towing on here that has a lot of useful information.

Andytk5 · 02-01-2009, 09:46 PM

Ah, didn't think about the weight issue making the handling different. Good points my friend. I will try to find the towing section and go through it. Can you tow a boat like the everglades 320CC just off the rear cleats on the Viking? Thanks man!

Capt. Bill11 · 02-01-2009, 10:39 PM

You can tow a boat like that with that size Viking. But it's a bit big to tow at those speeds with a boat that size. And no matter what the tow speed, I would think you would need to beef up the stock cleat backing areas. As well as making sure the boat being towed has the proper re-enforcing at the tow eye area.

http://www.ropeinc.com/towline.html

Andytk5 · 02-02-2009, 07:27 AM

Yeah I tried to find the towing area on here but didn't have much luck. I saw a sizeable sportfish being towed by a an 80' or so yacht at full bore it seemed on the "tow bridle" website. That seemed like quite a strain since the boat being towed was at least 30K pounds or more. Mine will be around around 10-12K. Also they were using the standard rear bit... Wow! That tow rope seems like it would absorb almost all the shock between the boats taking the stress of the rear cleats, but large backing plates would be a must.

MBevins · 02-02-2009, 07:00 PM

I'm not sure I agree Capt J on this. I have a 44 cpmy Viking with a 13foot Nouvorania CC RIB c/w 50HP 4stroke Honda. It weighs about 650 pounds.
When I first put it up there I had concerns about how it would handle in the rough stuff, it seems to do just fine, It did however cost me about 2-3 gph to run with it so I don't take it on long hauls.(this translates to about 8% increase in fuel) I still need to run with tabs to keep the bow down so I know I'm not burying the bow.

I would be more concerned about the structural integrity of the deck and the install of the crane. My Viking was designed to have the crane run behind the refridgerator on the Starboard side down to the chine where we glassed in a base` I would contact Viking before I did this install though to make sure the deck handles the weight. One other thing to keep in mind though is that at that weight the crane will have to have a motorized rotation as the boat will list as the "dingy" is swung out over the water` You will not be able to manhandle it.

Andytk5 · 02-02-2009, 07:17 PM

Good points. I have put in an email to Viking about this so i will see what kind of response I get. I may just need to stick with a novarania or a 15-17 whaler (old school style) like a montauk with out the center console, I think they were named GLS' for a while in the 90's.

MBevins · 02-02-2009, 07:31 PM

I personally will only use a RIB as a tender. It is a lot more forgiving as it bounces off my hull during launch.

Capt J · 02-02-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBevins

I'm not sure I agree Capt J on this. I have a 44 cpmy Viking with a 13foot Nouvorania CC RIB c/w 50HP 4stroke Honda. It weighs about 650 pounds.
When I first put it up there I had concerns about how it would handle in the rough stuff, it seems to do just fine, It did however cost me about 2-3 gph to run with it so I don't take it on long hauls.(this translates to about 8% increase in fuel) I still need to run with tabs to keep the bow down so I know I'm not burying the bow.

I would be more concerned about the structural integrity of the deck and the install of the crane. My Viking was designed to have the crane run behind the refridgerator on the Starboard side down to the chine where we glassed in a base` I would contact Viking before I did this install though to make sure the deck handles the weight. One other thing to keep in mind though is that at that weight the crane will have to have a motorized rotation as the boat will list as the "dingy" is swung out over the water` You will not be able to manhandle it.

He is talking about putting a 22' Bay Boat with a 150hp outboard on the front of a 68' SF. That is a huge difference in weight addition compared to a 13' inflatable. I recommended either a 600lb flats boat or towing a larger boat. But to add a 22' 2500lb center console bay boat to the front of a 68' SF, plus a very large davit, plus chaulks and you're looking at 3500lbs up there. Thats way too much IMO. That's equivalent of adding 500 gallons of diesel onto the front deck. Adding a normal sized tender most would not notice the difference in ride. A 24' Pathfinder is a much more useful boat then the 22' and would tow very very easily behind the 68' viking.

Ken Bracewell · 02-03-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBevins

I personally will only use a RIB as a tender. It is a lot more forgiving as it bounces off my hull during launch.

I whole heartedly agree. I'm currently having a 35' custom inflatable built which we will tow behind. I'll post pictures in the Tenders thread after we take delivery later this month.

Capt J · 02-03-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Bracewell

I whole heartedly agree. I'm currently having a 35' custom inflatable built which we will tow behind. I'll post pictures in the Tenders thread after we take delivery later this month.

The inflatables are more forgiving. BUT the initial cost of them is ridiculous for what they really are. Also, I just got a 14 Novourania re-tubed, the tender is a 1998, and it cost $7,000 to have the dealer re-tube it. I could've bought the owner a brand new whaler or near new hull for that and put his 1 year old outboard on it and never had an issue with it. Resale is also horrible on them.

My favorite tender was the Boston Whaler alert (I think thats what the model was). Too bad they stopped making it. It was a 13' fiberglass boat, but had a 4" high and 4" thick rubrail that was made of really soft rubber, that was cushioned and inflatable. But the rubrail had 0 to do with the integrity of the tender.

Andytk5 · 02-03-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt J

The inflatables are more forgiving. BUT the initial cost of them is ridiculous for what they really are. Also, I just got a 14 Novourania re-tubed, the tender is a 1998, and it cost $7,000 to have the dealer re-tube it. I could've bought the owner a brand new whaler or near new hull for that and put his 1 year old outboard on it and never had an issue with it. Resale is also horrible on them.

$7,000! Madness!!! Though they serve a great purpose acting as their own bumper.

My favorite tender was the Boston Whaler alert (I think thats what the model was). Too bad they stopped making it. It was a 13' fiberglass boat, but had a 4" high and 4" thick rubrail that was made of really soft rubber, that was cushioned and inflatable. But the rubrail had 0 to do with the integrity of the tender.

Got a response back from Viking and they said the max recomended tender length was 185" so it doesnt cover the emergency escape hatch (good point!) also they said it would change the handling depending on the exact package. I replied with the specifics on the pathfinder but it seems a small whaler or RIB may be better. Also I asked about towing the Everglades 320CC behind it, so we'll see.

I may start looking for a 15' whaler, always wanted one when I was a kid.

Andytk5 · 02-03-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andytk5

Got a response back from Viking and they said the max recomended tender length was 185" so it doesnt cover the emergency escape hatch (good point!) also they said it would change the handling depending on the exact package. I replied with the specifics on the pathfinder but it seems a small whaler or RIB may be better. Also I asked about towing the Everglades 320CC behind it, so we'll see.

I may start looking for a 15' whaler, always wanted one when I was a kid.

Response - Pathfinder too big/heavy, kind of expected, but towing the 32' sounds good.

Capt. Bill11 · 02-03-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andytk5

Response - Pathfinder too big/heavy, kind of expected, but towing the 32' sounds good.

At 20-25 knots? Better have a nice long tow line if you have to stop quickly.

Did they mention whether you have to re-enforce the stock cleats on the Viking?

Andytk5 · 02-03-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Bill11

At 20-25 knots? Better have a nice long tow line if you have to stop quickly.

Did they mention whether you have to re-enforce the stock cleats on the Viking?

Yeah the tow lines I have been finding are in the 300' range and made out of a shock absorbent material. This is not something I would be doing all the time, but would be nice to have the center console for fishing when I am in the islands instead of running the Viking everytime I want to fish, everyday... I guess a 15' whaler could be used as a tender to also get in some flats fishing too and it falls under the 185" length.