Class-action lawsuit bought against Caterpillar...

YachtForum · 01-30-2007, 02:45 PM

From Boating Industry News Daily...

Quote:

DETROIT – A U.S. District Judge recently certified a national class-action lawsuit against Caterpillar Inc. that potentially affects more than 7,000 Caterpillar marine engines produced since 1996 and could result in damages in excess of $100 million, the Detroit News reported in a story on its Web site this weekend.

The suit alleges certain Caterpillar engines contain defective aftercoolers, which allow water to enter the engines and mix with fumes, resulting in severe corrosion and engine failure, sometimes involving the engine exploding, the newspaper reported.

Caterpillar denies the allegations.

"We have requested an appeal of the certification decision," company spokeswoman Anne Leanos said in a prepared statement Friday quoted in the article. "We will continue to defend the case vigorously."

The main focus of the suit is the Caterpillar 3196, which the company has described as the ideal engine for yachts 40 to 60 feet long, according to the newspaper.

The suit was brought by Detroit businessman James Jaikins, who alleges that his Riviera 48 yacht contained two Caterpillar 3196 engines when a 2003 engine explosion and failure nearly stranded him between Florida and the Bahamas.

Jaikins says that when he started talking to other boat owners, he found his experience was not unique, alleging problems with the engines are the subject of widespread "dock talk" and are documented on Internet forums, the newspaper reported.

Jaikins’ attorney, Nathan Resnick, said the lawsuit was “a major consumer protection case – huge," according to the newspaper.

Ken Bracewell · 01-30-2007, 04:07 PM

I've talked to a couple of people who've had this problem.
It will be interesting to see what happens.

airship · 01-30-2007, 04:08 PM

It wouldn't surprise me if this is all because Caterpillar have also been producing boots, shoes, sandals and miscellaneous clothing for some time.

I think.

YachtForum · 01-30-2007, 04:26 PM

It's hard to speculate on the full extent of the 3196 failures, but it's a known issue that has been well documented. Beyond the aftercooler issue, *I think* there was also a series of blocks built in France that were "soft" and prone to warping if they overheated. I honestly can't remember now. It's been a while.

To the best of my knowledge (and everything I've heard from owners, brokers and the like), Cat stood behind the 3196's and repaired them at no cost to the owners. I've been told by numerous sources, once the engines have received the warranty updates, they are problem free.

I am more likely to believe this fellow "Jaikins" hired a hungry land-shark to go after deep pockets...

airship · 01-30-2007, 04:46 PM

Was this pre- or post- 2003?

Quote:

Beyond the aftercooler issue, *I think* there was also a series of blocks built in France that were "soft" and prone to warping if they overheated.

It sounds like you're alluding to some sort of problem with the French: "Chips off the old block", "French Fries" or "Freedom Fries", whatever takes your fancy in these uncertain post-Iraqi invasion times I guess. I realise that some CAT engines are equipped with French-made ABB turbos, but to "blame it all on the French"...well, be my guest!

CaptEvan · 01-30-2007, 05:52 PM

Those troubles ran down to the 3126's and 3116's as well. The telltale sign was the block mark from France. If you're curious, check out the BoatDiesel forum. You can narrow your interest down to specific engines.

YachtForum · 01-30-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airship

Was this pre- or post- 2003? It sounds like you're alluding to some sort of problem with the French: "Chips off the old block", "French Fries" or "Freedom Fries", whatever takes your fancy in these uncertain post-Iraqi invasion times I guess. I realise that some CAT engines are equipped with French-made ABB turbos, but to "blame it all on the French"...well, be my guest!

LOL! You're too much Airship! Again, I was told this a couple of years ago, so I don't remember the exact details, but I seem to recall a short series of blocks that were cast in France that were not properly hardened. I'm almost certain these were 3196's, but I honestly don't remember now. My apologies if I'm wrong.

My knowledge is based on research prior to purchasing a 1998 Sea Ray 480 Sedan Bridge. My boat had all the warranty updates, so I had no problems. With the exception of a Detroit option, Sea Ray used 3196's in all the Sedan Bridges from 1998 to 2002. As of 2003, Sea Ray switched to Cummins power.

MikeElliston · 01-30-2007, 07:06 PM

i had some issues with my cat 3412's. after some shorepower issues and battery charger issues, one of my Cats ended up with a fried ECU. what really seems weird about it though, was while the Cat tech was installing the new ECU (at a cost of over $2,700 plus labor) he was on the phone with another person with the same problems, a Starboard Engine 3412, with a fried ECU, but this one was down in Mexico, it just seems a little strange, that 2 boats, in 2 countries, with the same engines and the same service rep, has the same problem.

he ended up even using my engines to program the ECU to send to Mex so that he didn't hace to make the trip there and install it and program it.

CaptTom · 01-30-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airship

Was this pre- or post- 2003? It sounds like you're alluding to some sort of problem with the French: "Chips off the old block", "French Fries" or "Freedom Fries", whatever takes your fancy in these uncertain post-Iraqi invasion times I guess. I realise that some CAT engines are equipped with French-made ABB turbos, but to "blame it all on the French"...well, be my guest!

Airship, a little sensitive, are we? Just remember, if it wasn't for us, you would be speaking German! (Lol, just bustin on ya)

YachtForum · 01-30-2007, 08:24 PM

Uh oh! Everybody duck! Incoming...

dancin dave · 02-01-2007, 08:14 PM

Hello all, glad I found your site. Very interesting and top hat. Out of my league for sure.

The french blocks were stamped "FABS" and they were on the 3116 and 3126 as well. I have 3116s, first thing I did was run serial # with Cat. Great engine, runs like a top and I just turned 1000 hours. Anyway I've been looking for 510 sundancers (thats how I found this site,did a search and this one popped up) my cat dealer told me if I found a 510 with a 3196 to call with the serial #s and if it did not have the intercooler repair or update they would do the repair under warranty even if it was out of the warranty, no charge. This type of customer service is why I would always buy a boat with cats in it, including the 3196, now if I could find the additional funds for the upgrade and fuel, I would look for a 510 with the 800 hps in it.A bullet proof engine I'm told.

This being said I dont understand why someone would sue for something when they could get it just by asking. Additionally I had just had new oil filters installed on the motors, heading home from Hilton Head to Ct. A cat filter began to leak from the crimped seam, I lost some oil not much, I cleaned it up,put on a new filter and called mech. He sent me a new one, the cat dealer told me if the engine had failed I would get a new engine, no charge, despite its age or hrs. Had it been another make(filter), I would be out of luck. From what I see Cat is worth owning, nothings purrfect (sorry) thats why we need mfgs that stand behind their products.Like Cat.

Dave

Talon · 02-02-2007, 04:04 PM

Often many components are made in just 1 country and shipped to all sites for installation.

This has the 'Faulty Batch' syndrome, where they turn up anywhere.

Have to wait to see how CAT go with this!

KCHARLES2 · 04-12-2007, 09:42 PM

I am the captain of a sport yacht with the 3412e and similiar problems happen to a brand new 200hr Cat engine similiar to the law suit issue. Had to pull the engine out broke rocker arm, water in the engine bent push rod. Cat picked up the $68,000 yard bill rebuilt the whole engine and swore it wasnt there engine that caused the problem?

K1W1 · 04-13-2007, 01:27 AM

Hi,

Talon, Based on my own experience rebuilding and maintaining a number Cats the reverse is true.

I used to be amazed at the range of Country of Origin names that appeared on Cat packaging.

Angelus · 04-13-2007, 06:01 AM

As it happens I'm going to be having a drink with the European Rep. for this Company. I think before I show him the editorial Carl first posted I will ask him what he knows, Officially or not. I known him some time now and he lives in the same street as me. I've had a few dealings with the marine side of this company and must say I prefer the MTU's Volvo and the smaller Perkins.

I believe that I was working for a certain company not so long ago and we fitted 3 of these engines in a BIG yacht. When caming back from sea trials she had a 10mm bulge in Maindeck and a hole big enough to put your fist in in the Engine block. Maybe even a hole in the ships side(can't remember) due to an engine explosion. This was, at the time, put down to Human error. Now after seeing this thread I might even owe a certain Engineering manager an apology. I ask my friend tonight anyway.

To finish..
"Uh oh! Everybody duck! Incoming... " Carl you crack me up