[DON GREER]

It raining so what else is there to do but think about …….BOATS……..

ONE:

With technology such as it is why are boats still letting the engine run a single speed transmission that turns the prop? In the new highway trucks the 12 speed automatic transmission runs the engine according to the required demand of speed and torque. The truck, the engine, and the transmission have all been engineered and designed to work as one integrated, exceptionally efficient machine. It equates to optimal engine and vehicle performance, which means a higher degree of fuel economy and reliability. If this technology was applied to boats shouldn’t the boat economy and operating aspects improve dramatically? Where is the engineering on this?

TWO:

New corporate jets and helicopters have “glass cockpits” that illustrate instantaneous engine, airframe, navigation data, and event issues. All flight information is displayed as needed; aircraft’s situation, position and progress. They no longer have a gad-zillion warning lights and alarms. If applied to boating the operational aspect would greatly simplify while maintaining the utmost level for safe passage. A new corporate jet is much cheaper than a new corporate boat. Why has boating not kept up with the aircraft industry in this area?

THREE:

Quiet enjoyment begins on the boat when the main engines are shut down. In 1981 we developed an electronic system that started with a microphone and ended with a couple of speakers. Using the microphone we downloaded the sound, analyzed the noise characteristics, duplicated the characteristics in the inverse, and then reproduced the sound in its inverse through the speakers. Even with the slow electronics of 1981 the net result was a dramatic reduction in noise levels, from 132 db to 65 db. Applying the same technology using today’s electronics should render the time lag to negligible, making the read/produce aspect appear simultaneous. The net result should be an engine room that operates well below 50 db. Where is boating with this technology?

I’m done....for now.......

[YachtForums]

Don,

I've changed the title of your thread so it is better indexed. "Food for Thought" is not a typical search engine phrase when looking for new technologies or ideas.

[DON GREER]

No worries. I lost my literary license some time back….

[YachtForums]

Re: question #2... I can't remember the last boat I was on that didn't have some sort of glass display interface. The vast majority new yachts are true "glass cockpits", with nary a dial to speak of. Also, in many ways, the yachting industry parallels the aviation industry in the number of, and complexity of onboard systems.

Here's a thread on the subject; Aerospace vs. Marine...
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ge...vs-marine.html

[AMG]

On your first question, I guess a variable pitch propeller does the job. Like the famous KaMeWa props from Sweden..

On your last question, some yachts have the system you described, but normally, noise is well taken care of with regular sound and vibration dampening materials on large yachts.

[YachtForums]

Here's a YF member that has adapted Variable Pitch Prop Technology...
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/mo...n-94-nilo.html

On sound, most builders have gone to great measures to reduce vibration; insulating engines and running gear for reduced decibel levels.

[nilo]

Indeed variable pitch is better than gears, because it is seamless, no jerky movements and pitch is adopted by the computer according to revs and load. There is also no reverse gear, so the engine does not have instant load changes during maneuvering. Furthermore, during maneuvers you can set the revs to a constant and play with the pitch, reduce thrust to very limited amounts, which enables very smooth operation.

I had a specific experience during my passage through the Corinth Canal. There was a Passilipo Rizzadi 95 following us. The speed limit in the canal is 8 knots and the width is 24 meters. Possilipo had to engage port and starboard engines in and out of gear all the time to keep her speed in line with the convoy speed. Due to this she was moving to port and starboard each time she engaged gears and was obliged to make correction with her bow thruster each time, whereas I had a very smooth and easy drive.

[JAG1]

Couldn't agree more with the variable pitch prop - keep that reduction gear simple, hard enough to fix the one on my car let alone when it weighs a few tonnes.

#3 sounds interesting, I'm aware of the principle but haven't seen it applied to an industrial enviroment only to aircraft headphones. Any examples on the web?

[CODOG]

No.1
The two-speed boxes currently available from ZF work very well, as long as the prop design is optimised correctly...but still dont offer the theoretical improvement over fixed props that VP ones do.
I've not seen much lately on the carbon warping props that potentially offer much of the VP advantages but from a monolithic prop unit...promising much, lighter weight and higher efficiency at a greater rpm range. Anyone with any experience of these ?
I'm looking forward to the day when VP props are available for the smaller high performance yacht market. I guess VP props for surface drives would be the Holy Grail in that segment. I'm a fan of the 'pod' drives that are making a name for themselves at the moment, and I also think the general mechanical layout of these things would lend themselves to VP props far easier than a simple shaft...but they are still a way off as far as ultimate prop efficiency goes compared to pure surface props.
So, is Yellowfin VSD going to be that Holy Grail ?

[FISHTIGUA]

P.R Trans do a Volvo Penta stepdrive 2speed which is from a Landrover....not the best. Just get bigger HP

[kc135delta]

on No. 2:

Last I checked, corporate jets were more expensive than boats. By a long shot.

A 'Green' GV - No interior, just basic airframe/engines, and bottom line avionics runs $80,000,000.00. I'm sure it's up closer to 100mil since the dollar is down. The BBJ's, ACJ's and airliner conversions can be much more.

[CODOG]

Originally Posted by kc135delta

on No. 2: Last I checked, corporate jets were more expensive than boats. By a long shot

Depends on the jet and the boat its compared to.
Heres one that is matched closely by the alledged owners yacht.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6768237.stm
Search the net enough and you can even find provisional layouts of the jet that include a model of said yacht.

[Codger]

Three: Active noise reduction.
ANR has been implemented in a number of industrial situations with varying degrees of success. The size and shape of the space has as much to do with the ultimate noise reduction levels as does the original noise source.
Tried to apply ANR to a LNG pumping station about fifteen years ago. Steel shed on a concrete pad with an interior volume of 6000 cu.ft. Fairly constant levels and little variance in the frequency range to be controlled. The noise from the shack was disturbing the neighbouring cattle. There was an amplifier company in Washington state that lent a hand to the project but I don't remember their details. From what I recall the use of insulation and other passive noise control measures was almost as effective and had no reliability issues.

[DON GREER]

On the jet cost f.y.i. Eclipse, Cessna, Embraer, Honda, diamond, epic, to mention a few are all selling corporate jets ranging in price from 1.5 to 4 million; we are in the process of building a new jet center to handle these toys.....nonetheless one with deep pockets can always build bigger and pay much more....can't take it with you..!!

[Dan Evans]

One look at the bridge aboard the Maltese Falcon and you will be wondering when jet technology is going to catch up with it