[K1W1]

Hi,

I will attempt to explain what I understand of the Air/ Electric Drive he is talking about.

As we don't know if the intended current is AC or DC I have used the terms Alternator/Generator to indicate that it could be either.

From what I understand the Alternator/Generator that will power the drive motor is itself used as a motor when connected to the mains to charge the receivers. The motive force here being electricity from the mains

It and the motors roles are reversed when what was initially the compressor now becomes the motor driving what had initially been the motor which is now converted to Alternator/Generator which supplies the electrical driving force to the motor attached to the shaft. The motive force being the air that was compressed and stored in the first stage

TRY, please don't be afraid to correct or clarify this as you have piqued many peoples interest here and we all like new and interesting ideas.

[TRY]

A few flow-charts to TRY and explain more clearly than the bits and pieces mentioned in earlier posts:

compressed air stored in tanks at 300 bars (could be more in near future)
>>> "engine" (no combustion but uses pistons-rods-valves-crankshaft) at 30 bars >> drives anything (gearbox, genset, prop,etc).
available now are 10kw and 25kw units. up to 200-300kw in 22-24 months.

mains (220-110) >> drive compressor-pistons of same "engine" via an electric motor to compress air >> air tanks.

to facilitate the filling of the expansion chamber at higher revs (comparable to combustion chamber in a classic engine), the piston is stopped at top during 40% of crankshaft turn (crankshaft keeps turning of course).

overall "cost" = 25% of comparable diesel engine (75% economy, exactly!)
no toxic emissions.

[TRY]

to get all engineers' brains cooking!

to improve the "work" part of the crankshaft-turn to 270° (yes!) the latest generation of "engines" now use 2 pistons (of different diameter) on the same crank.

[Castlerock]

Is this what you are working on?

http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html

[TRY]

That's exactly what we're doing and who we are!
Any further questions still?
I'll reply.

[TRY]

Boating applications will be done separately, with the help and assistance of the same engineering team.

Two separate systems are under evaluation:
- air engines as direct drive units
- air genset with electric motors
both to be implemented at first in a catamaran because less power is needed (and because a cat is the best boat anyway!)

[TRY]

Calculations, models and trials have provided us with a more precise idea of "fuel" consumption in the case of a "dual-energy" engine:
A 40hp engine would need approx 1 liter of fuel (any fuel that is) for its external and permanent "air-heating" system.
In this configuration air is taken in from the athmosphere, compressed (via the compressor part of the pistons), heated (to obtain more volume = more energy), drives the engine side of the piston.

For a twin-engine installation 2 liters of fuel / hour will provide propulsion.
Not bad in times where the barrel of any fuel is rising without forseeable ceiling!

[wdrzal]

Taken from air engine:

"We have never claimed that the thermodynamic graphs of our engines would be adiabatic (nor are they isothermic). Mileage presents no problem - the volume and pressure of air in the car can be increased considerably. (by changing the tank size or the air pressure). The data published at this link, should help to re-establish the truth and give definitive information on these two points."

first law of thermodynamics says:

Energy can neither be created or destroyed, heat and mechanical energy are mutually convertible.

second law: entropy tends to rise over time.

It seems they are just storing energy for other uses.but since you can not create energy ,the best you can do is make a more efficient engine.

I don't have time right now to review entire engine right now but ,it may be more efficient,but not by 75% fuel consumption in my opinion just to take a wild guess, I will always take a good look at new technology ,but it has to follow thermodynamic laws. no exceptions.


The Laws of Thermodynamics say:

Zeroth Law: "You must play the game."
First Law: "You can't win."
Second Law: "You can't break even."
Third Law: "You can't quit the game."

Do you wanna Play Thermodynamics ???????? I forgot "you must"

[TRY]

But a bit of a changed world now, due to lateral thinking, not from me but by the engineers of this mechanical miracle. Using exisiting and well-known mechanical parts a new "whole" has been created, thereby changing the existing laws of mechanics and thermodynamics for good (and for the better). After more than a hundred years of detailed development it was time for a radical overhaul of the good old combustion engine.

Just be a little patient and something nice will happen to the motorized world.

[TRY]

After a detailed visit to the Lagoon 420 hybrid sailing catamaran (diesel genset + 2 electric propulsion motors) I'm more than ever convinced that our solution is superior by far!

I don't know if there's any catamaran builder out there on the Yachtforums, but if there is I'm interested to discuss a cooperation to launch our air-electric package.
Ideal would be a cat with a 2 x 25 kw power requirement.

Please contact me openly in this thread or private if you want to keep it discreet!

[Talon]

Heating up the air tanks, can this be achieved by routing the genset/engine exhausts into heat exchanger coils around the tanks.
If you can get enough of the excess latent heat stored in a thermal 'Induction' coil around the tanks, there should be enough heat to boost pressure, even when the gensets aren't running.
(After the gensets/engines have been run previously)

Good luck with what you are doing.


Jay

[TRY]

Many thanks for your interest, Talon! Together with some 600'ish clicks on this thread it comforts me that the online community shows a clear belief in "alternative" propulsion systems for boats and yachts, amongst other applications!
Many thanks to all, once again!

Now, as to your suggestion, that doesn't work here, since our engine doesn't produce "heat" in the exhaust.
We do not have a "combustion" but a simple "expansion" of compressed air and that produces "cold"!

Therefore we need an external, continuous "burner" to heat the air (at 30 bars) before it enters the expansion chamber.
The consumption of this external burner is extremely low (1.0 - 1.5 liters per hour), it uses any fuel, and the temperature of the "heater" is tuned in such a way that no toxic gases (or infinitimal quantities) are produced in the process.

Is this all clear? If not, just ask!

[K1W1]

Hi,

You have stated in several posts here about the low consumption of any type of fuel.

There quite a range of things that can be considered Fuel

Would you care to enlighten myself and the other readers as to the probable identity of your ideal fuel?

[TRY]

Well I'll list all fuels I know, but I suppose there's many others:
- gasoline
- natural gas
- methane
- diesel
- bio-diesel
- light oil (vegetal or animal oils)
- ................
- ..............
and so on, anything that burns and produces heat so to say!

[K1W1]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

The storage handling and safety issues of each of these fuels is very different.

You make a calim about how this is suitable for yachts, there needs to be a universal relatively safe fuel that can be obtained at any dock worldlwide for this idea to really be a runner.

The Calorific values of the fuels you mention vary so much that to say 1 to 1.5 lt an hour would do is simply ludicrous.


This is a good forum with many people with far more education than me, as a well qualified and experienced Marine professional I simply find some of your claims just unworkable mathematically. Maths is the only truly universal language so there can be nothing lost in translation.

I know that Carl removed my first post ( he is welcome to do the same to this if he feels the same way)on this subject where you felt I was being too hard and or critical of your claims, based upon what you posted to that point I was only questioning what you had posted which was pretty far fetched in anyone's book.

TFrom what I understand the rest of what you have posted is not referring to your personal work simply the work of the guys in Aix en Provence.