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Old 10-20-2006, 07:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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yacht operating costs

quick question,

do motor yachts (more specifically mega yachts) have a direct correlation between size and operating costs, like here's an example.

Example A: direct correlation

a yacht that is 100' long costs 100k a year to operate (not really just as an example)

a yacht that is 200' long costs 200k a year to operate

a yacht that is 300' long costs 300k a year, and so on.

Example B: negative correlation

a yacht that is 100' loa costs 100k a year to operate

a 200' loa yacht costs 150k a year to operate

300' loa yacht costs maybe 225k a year to operate ect.. ect..

Example C: positive correlation

100' loa = 100k a year

200' loa = 250k a year

300' loa = 400k a year

I'm in the market for a displacement expedition yacht and I want to see how it all works out.

when I say operating costs I mean docking fee's, crew sallary, fuel consumption ect...

I am looking forward to your replys,

thanks, drew
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Definitely positive correlation.

And the annual cost is generally figured to be about 10% of the initial purchase price.
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree with Kevin, if you buy new.
If you're buying "previously experienced", figure on 10% of the replacement value... ie what you would have spent on new.

Please, please - do yourself a favour - don't let any broker convince you that it can be done for less.
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Old 10-20-2006, 10:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think it really depends on your plans for the boat (where you keep it and where you go) and what type of crew (experienced sea men or a bunch of unexperienced illegal-aliens) you choose to have run your vessel is what will make all the differences. A 200 footer could spend just as much as a 120 footer with all the variables.
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Old 10-21-2006, 01:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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operation costs

I think you calculate a little low.
Here are some details out of my crew experience: 100 feet 4 Crew 1 Year

Captain 72000
Engineer: 60000
Deckhand: 24000
Stew : 24000
Chef : maybe 6 month in Season 20000
Total Crew costs without travelling and crew agency costs around
200,000 Euro a year

Maintanance cost depends on the quality you get but you can calculate
1. Year 3 % of the purchase price
2. Year 5 % of the pp
3. Year 6 %
4. Year 7 %
5. Year 10 %
if a refit or an interior refit is coming up you can add on 10 % in the year.

So I would say on a purchse price of 5 Mio Euro
1. Year 350.000 minimum without fuel, berth
2. Year 500.000
etc.

That is also the reason why so many owners consider to charter the Yacht
to bring down these costs a little. But normally this will not work with Yachts under 100 feet and only if you bring your Yacht as new build to the market and not after 1 or 2 years when you realize that this number was one too big.

Yachts are toys and mens toys are normally very expensive.!!
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Old 10-24-2006, 08:05 AM   #6 (permalink)
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$800k to $1,000k per foot per year is a good budget estimate for So. Florida. There are a lot of variables such as age, condition, make of yacht. Also a factor is whether yacht is in charter service and if so, where. Costs in the Med are much higher. Again my numbers are budget estimates.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMcL
$800k to $1,000k per foot per year is a good budget estimate for So. Florida. There are a lot of variables such as age, condition, make of yacht. Also a factor is whether yacht is in charter service and if so, where. Costs in the Med are much higher. Again my numbers are budget estimates.

Hi,

I don't know where these numbers come from but they are way out of touch with reality and could be very misleading to a lay person.(new or prospective Owner)

I have knowledge of a project where just the Captains package exceeds what you would say was a fair budget for the length ( Given length in feet x $1000) not to mention the other 20+ crew salaries, insurance, food, toiletries, laundry supplies,uniforms,fuel and any repairs/maintenance and or upgrades.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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budgeting

Mega yacht Budgeting can be a very laborious process which can be both beneficially and disastrous at the same time.
I am currently working over a new budgeting system, trying to include as much info as possible along with statistic variations and ratios.
If any of you have templates with operational expenses description per department or whatever , and wants to contribute to my task I will be more than happy

Regards
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Old 02-15-2007, 11:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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IMPOSSIBLE to answer

To KcI35delta:

The fast answer to your question is, emphaticaly:
NO WAY! ......man!
There are far too many varibles involved.

The long answer is:
A most misunderstood element for laymen - and even fishermen, yachtsmen and - dare I say it, Admirals - is:

- That as a vessel's length increases:
- DYNAMIC FORCES can multiply by the square.
- with some elements by the cube.

That's why a jet ski will get on plane in a heart beat.Whereas, a 100 ft. boat will take a lot longer. If at all.

As - the ability of a boat to plane, goes up by the sq. of the surface. But, unfortuneatly, the surface area of the skin of the vessel - tends to go up by the cube.
With a corresponding, ever increasing - gain in weight.
- And ask any racer, weight is a major concern for
planning boats.
That's why it's so rare, to see large yachts operating at 75 knots. And when they do. They will be using gi-nourmous amounts of horsepower.

It follows:
That a handy, rule of thumb that I use, is that an
increase of 50% in length will increase the cost of
of a yacht by at least 100%.
i.e.
- If a 60 ft. vessel comes in at $ 2 million.
- A 90 ft. vessel will come it at $ 4 million

It also follows that:
If everything else in the boat is going up by a steep
curve to infinity.....
With bigger engines, more gensets and more
staterooms.
That OPERATING COSTS are ALSO racing upwards.
Especialy, if significantly, higher speeds are demanded.
With Expedition yachts the major cause of cost over runs and weight gains is the owners, ALWAYS
adding more......and more..." essential equipment."

The basic thing that potential yacht owners need to get their heads around is that:
95% of humanity live in " 2 x 2 = 4 " world.
( When you price out carpet at $ 10. a yard, you can reasonably expect, that two yards will cost:
$ 20.)
It serves; to get used to the unavoidable fact,
that when you enter a boat yard, that when you
double the length - the price will go up, often by
FOUR times the unit price.

As stated, there are a lot of variables involved.
Now you know what generated, the oft quoted line,
" If you have to ASK...the price of a yacht....
you can't afford it."

Cheers !
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Old 02-15-2007, 12:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reidsatsea
I agree with Kevin, if you buy new.
If you're buying "previously experienced", figure on 10% of the replacement value... ie what you would have spent on new.

Please, please - do yourself a favour - don't let any broker convince you that it can be done for less.
This is the most close to reality you can come. Maybe fuel and berthing is increasing in price a little faster, but otherwise 10% of the replacement value is realistic. Important is that this should be divided over a longer period, so you are putting funds aside for upcoming overhauls and refits. This will be needed every fifth year or more often if you charter or run the yacht in tropic waters.

Than you have the saga of financing the yacht with chartering, but this I leave to the brokers to justify...
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Old 02-15-2007, 08:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Tristar said:
Quote:
It follows:
That a handy, rule of thumb that I use, is that an
increase of 50% in length will increase the cost of
of a yacht by at least 100%.
i.e.
- If a 60 ft. vessel comes in at $ 2 million.
- A 90 ft. vessel will come it at $ 4 million
So then a 135 foot vessel can be had for a mere 8 million? Where do I sign!
Your point is valid but even here you understate the case. I think that a 60 foot vessel may indeed be had for not much more than 2 million but that you would be hard pressed to find a 120 foot vessel for under 16 million. In that case, an increase of 100% in size equals an increase in cost by a factor of 8, probably doing the same to operating costs!
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Old 02-16-2007, 12:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Operating costs.....

HOW MUCH is a YACHT?

To yotphix:

AGREED.
Almost any number - we throw around - will be an
UNDERESTIMATE !
Being more of a structural guy, I tend to look at base
values. Should have said, the costs of the bare bones...
Of the essentials - like the hull - that keeps everything
else afloat.
Before........You add the gold plated faucets !!

Also I did mention sometimes, that multiplying by the
cube is required and sometimes by a factor of four.
- At LEAST. - At a MINIMUM.
Which edges us closer to your numbers.
I also said ".......far to many varibles involved."

Lets get serious - I challange ANYONE - to hold to
their original cost estimates, of a conceptual,
custom yacht. As, the multiplier extreamous; that
trumps all others is:
- " The Owner's Whims and Fantasy, Wish List."

The point I was making is that:
Trying to extrapolate OPERATING costs, before you
define the SPECIFICATIONS and PERFORMANCE
expected, for a given vessel - is an exercise in
futility and sillyness. I'm sure this is agreed on. - By all.

'Nuff said.
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Old 02-16-2007, 11:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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tru dat!
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