Helicopters / Seaplanes on Yachts

mp-willow · 03-16-2006, 01:56 PM

Hello all a few questions about helos and Yachts. One -what is the smallest size yacht that could support a helo, this is the main Yacht not a shadow?

Two -I am interested in a big bird, a S-61 type would need to be amphibian as other excursions would be used. Also how would this effect overall range?

Three -Seaplanes? what are your opionions?

Eric Sponberg · 03-16-2006, 04:17 PM

This question cannot be answered simply because it really is a weight and stability issue. The yacht needs sufficient open deck space, buoyancy, and low enough center of gravity to support the weight of a fully loaded helicopter perched on an upper deck. Obviously, the bigger the helicopter, the bigger the yacht required. A relatively wide, low-slung yacht (one that is not too tall) could support a larger, heavier helicopter than a narrow, tall yacht. You have to check with the designers of specific yachts to get a specific answer.

Similar considerations apply to seaplanes, and in addition, I would imagine you have to lift them in and out with a crane, so the yacht has to have enough stability to support the weight of the plane hanging on the crane. A stern loading arrangement would probably be easier and safer to accomplish than a side loading arrangement so that the yacht does not heel during launch and recovery.

Eric

mp-willow · 03-17-2006, 10:29 AM

thanks Eric. I was mulling over some thoughts, and numbers for my slef, Yact would be 270' LOA Beam: 60' draft would then need to be about, 18 to 22' I think. But this ratio seems off, as I have not talked with a designer yet to confirm. The pad would be main deck over a tender gagage. I was thinking of a Heli gagage as well, but am not shore if i want to commit to all that space.

This project is in the very beginning of brainstorming, but the Helicoptor is an item needed, as it is an exploration project that would be rated A1 ice.

thanks again, Seaplanes and the tenders that they worked with are a soft spot for me, I hoped by posting here to get some people talking about this, and help for the project.

Kevin · 03-17-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp-willow

One -what is the smallest size yacht that could support a helo, this is the main Yacht not a shadow?

There was a thread about this subject sometime last year I believe... I just can't find it now. At the time I'd found a picture of a yacht in the 75-80' range with a small heli perched just aft of the bridge.

mp-willow · 03-17-2006, 01:48 PM

Kevin thanks. I will try to look for the thread. It would have to be a small bird say a bell 47 or such?

Arniev · 03-17-2006, 02:26 PM

This is a thread on Delta Marine's 164' Expedition Yacht "TRITON", which you can use as reference.
Triton has an EC130 copter:
* Max Weight : 5,291lb
* Capacity : 1 Pilot + 6/7 Passengers
* Power Plant : 1 Turbomeca ARRIEL 2B1
* Fast Cruise Speed : 235km/hr-127kts

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/de...ghlight=triton

I assume similar gross-weight helicopters from other manufacturers can be used (for ex. AgustaWestland, BellTextron).

Another one is Schweer's 194' "SENSES" also has a helipad, and her specs states: "Helicopter facilities certified to a maximum of 2.5 tonnes."

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ne...ghlight=senses

The above are just examples, and I remember one superyacht that had a Sikorsky on it's helipad (not sure about the model, though).

foundrycourt · 03-17-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

There was a thread about this subject sometime last year I believe... I just can't find it now. At the time I'd found a picture of a yacht in the 75-80' range with a small heli perched just aft of the bridge.

Yeah, I remember that, it was a robinson R22 or R44.

foundrycourt · 03-17-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundrycourt

Yeah, I remember that, it was a robinson R22 or R44.

Found the link
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3447

My mistake it isn't an R22 or R44 must have been another picture I remember looking at.

Alan · 03-17-2006, 07:58 PM

Having operated a Cessna 206 and then 208 Caravan from a yacht for many years all over the world the advantages are clear. 2 tonne payload, 140 knots cruise and 900 mile range come in pretty handy.

On the other hand I cannot deny that the MD900 I am currently involved with is perfect for short trips for arrivals and departures.

You could put a 208 and say a R44 on a 70m yacht. Wingspan of a 208 is 57 feet but it doesn't matter that the wings protrude beyond the yachts beam so a 12m yacht beam is OK . Draft would be 4 to 4.5 metres depending on how much MGO you want to carry.

Kevin · 03-17-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundrycourt

Found the link
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3447

My mistake it isn't an R22 or R44 must have been another picture I remember looking at.

Yep, that's the one I was looking for.

mp-willow · 03-18-2006, 12:25 AM

I would Like to thank you all, Arniev, thanks for the bit on Erocopter. I did not think that this question would get this type of timely reply, you all are very nice and helpful.

Also thanks for the Seaplane help. I need to work out a few thoughts for the storing of the plane, if it has a garage or a partial one so as not to stick up as high off deck. Any thoughts?

KCook · 03-18-2006, 02:05 AM

Well, here's a random thought. As Eric said, stern launching a seaplane results in the easiest handling. However, assuming insufficient beam for a full hanger, that does leave the plane stowed exposed at the stern of the yacht. Given that planes are more delicate than boats, wouldn't it be better to stow the plane near the middle of the yacht? Even though this would mean providing a crane setup for putting the plane over the side. Thinking minimizing potential storm damage here.

Kelly Cook

mp-willow · 03-18-2006, 12:27 PM

KCool, hello, that would be a god idea, as I would imagine this Yacht an all weather, all seasons cruiser. What you sugest is a set up that the Navy used for Seaplane Tendors, that I am trying to look up now. Having the plane in the middle or forward third with a high bow, would help to keep her safer.

The Launch and recovery may be a bit more tricky and ruff water would make that nearly unlikly, but it might be the best situation. The Yacht would need to be laid out a little less conventional. So how is that for your thoughts?

KCook · 03-18-2006, 02:25 PM

Same wavelength alright. It was Navy seaplane practice that I had in mind.

Kelly

YachtForums · 03-18-2006, 10:28 PM

I honestly don't think a seaplane is the answer. Yes, it's faster and you can cruise hands-off, BUT... the limitations far outweigh the range and speed. A heli is the only dinghy that makes sense....

With a seaplane, you are limited in both take-off and landing conditions. You also have the difficulty in loading/unloading the plane from the deck. Adding to this... trying to unload a pilot or passengers from a seaplane to a yacht will most likely result in someone getting wet. The wings are slightly wider than the pontoons.

I have to admit, my only experience with a seaplane is limited to a Buccaneer Ultralight with floats... quite possibly the best bang for the buck in aviation history and a heck of a lot of fun to fly low & slow. A heli on the other hand offers much greater convenience, at the cost of speed and range. My only concern with a heli is its exposure to a demanding environment. I kept my R-22 inside a hangar. Typically, you don't have that luxury on a yacht, but of all the places... this is where it's needed the most. Offshore conditions are far more severe than those found onshore... even 100 yards inshore. Salt and sun will take it's toll on any machine, whether it be car, boat or plane. With a heli, you've got lots of exposed moving parts, specifically unprotected steel and alloy components, that are critical links. However, with diligent maintenance, none of this is a concern.

Getting back your question... "seaplane or heli"... in my mind (what's left of it after 45 years)... a helicopter is the only logical solution. However, if you really need an S-61... I suggest purchasing a surplass aircraft carrier!

All joking aside, the S-61 is among the most proven and capable helicopters in the world. It's absolutely astonishing, given it's size and weight, it's capable of rolling (due to a rigid rotor head). VERY few heli's can do this, such as the Bolkow 105 and select others.

You don't need to choose a heli the size of an S-61 for amphibean capabilities. There are floats available (or pop-outs if needed) for any machine. Yes, they will hinder your cruise speed, but they truly expand the usefulness of the machine. Just be prepared to swing when you spool-up.

Let us know what you decide on. Post a picture, or take us for a spin. YF rules.