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Lubrication & Diesel Maintenance Info

Discussion in 'Engines' started by YachtForums, Oct 20, 2004.

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  1. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Lubrication & Diesel Maintenance...

    Few people are unaware that diesel lube oil must be changed frequently, 100 hours is the usual interval. Why so often? It's because large amounts of carbon is a by-product that ends up in the oil. If allowed to build up and remain in the oil, the lubricating ability of the oil is severely retarded. Moreover, carbon blocks heat transfer and retards the cooling function of the oil as well. Engine oil will also suffer a build up of sulfuric acid, which can damage bearings as shown above.

    Equally important is good filters. Only the very best and most expensive oil filters are good enough to be significantly effective. It is recommended that you buy either OEM or top name brand filters regardless of cost.

    Don't cheat on your lube oils, either. The manufacturers are not blowing smoke, so just follow the recommendation for oil grades. They know better than your buddy down the dock who may have other ideas that he heard from yet someone else.

    The Vast Majority of All Diesel Damage is Due to Lack of Cooling System Maintenance...

    We don't know the exact percentage of engine failures that result from lack of cooling system maintenance, but it is surely at least 50%. You need to understand this: Diesel engines operate under a piston compression of around 350 to 550 psi. That is three to four times the amount of a gas engine. This high compression puts great strain on the engine and can build up heat very rapidly (like within 60 seconds) if there is a failure in the cooling system. Diesel cooling systems are vastly more critical than gas engine cooling systems. Gas engines can suffer from numerous moderate overheats without causing catastrophic damage. THIS IS NOT TRUE OF DIESELS. Diesel engines can and will suffer serious damage even as the result of relatively minor overheat conditions. This is because the overheating occurs so rapidly, and because the internal parts are less tolerant of damage than a gas engine.

    Most overheats occur because the engines are never inspected and leaks are never found and repaired. Cooling system hoses are allowed to age, and they eventually burst, leak or blow off.

    Another common cause is failure to keep the cooling system clean. Instead of adding a properly mixed solution of recommended coolant, owners just pour water in, or add straight coolant. Proper ratios of engine coolant are critical to proper cooling and the prevention of corrosion.

    System Gasketing...

    Due to vibration and age, system gaskets do not last forever and will inevitably start to leak. The leaks usually occur in a location that is not easily seen. Thus coolant is lost and the engine overheats. Consider this: Can you take a guess at how often anyone ever checks the engine coolant before starting the engines when we do a sea trial? The incredible answer is that not only do boat owners not check the coolant, they don't check the oil either. These very confidant souls who are going to eventually pay the price for their carelessness.

    Do Your Engines Vibrate?

    If your engines or any part thereof vibrate to the point where it looks blurry, or you can see it shaking, rest absolutely assured that that vibration is capable of destroying your engine. First of all, it's going to break all of the gasket surfaces loose. Or hoses will go loose. And then the engine is going to start leaking fluids. If the engines are vibrating excessively, you need to have the problem diagnosed and get the vibration stopped.

    Engine Alarms...

    You should regard your alarm systems like light bulbs in your house. They will operate for a short period of time and then crap out. They are a constant maintenance thing, and the failure to maintain them could be one of the costliest mistakes you'll ever make.

    Exhaust Temperature Alarms...

    One of the weaknesses of water temperature alarms is that they will not function when there is a complete loss of cooling water around the sensor. The sensor only works when it is immersed in water. For this reason, it is strongly recommend that you have exhaust temperature alarms installed. These will function when the others won't. The cost of having them installed is minimal, and a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of an overheat.

    When to Inspect...

    Engine coolant should be checked every time before starting the engine. That does not mean looking at the coolant recovery tank. You should NEVER use the recovery tank as an indication of coolant level in the engine. Half the time these things do not work properly.
    The first sign of leaking gaskets does not mean that you should replace THAT gasket, it means you should replace all such gaskets. If one is starting to leak, soon they all will.

    Coolers...

    All diesel will have at least three coolers: the heat exchanger, oil and fuel cooler -- and most likely a transmission cooler. That makes four for a single engine boat, eight for twin. The problem here is that they all need to be inspected and serviced at least annually. Yes, you are correct. Servicing eight coolers is expensive. But, then, so is overhauling or replacing an engine or two. This is one reason we posit the question of whether you can really afford diesels or not. Many boat owners simply cannot afford this, and so run their engines till they quit. Or put up the for sale sign when it starts blowing smoke.

    Continue to Part 2.
  2. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Why is this necessary? Several reasons. You replace the zincs on your boat at least once a year, but perhaps you weren't aware that your engine is full of the same saltwater that your boat is floating in. If you have corrosion problems on the hull of your boat, then you have corrosion problems inside your engine. Not inspecting the cooling system annually (by means of dismantling it) is like trusting the weather forecast. Another reason is that sea strainer do not take out all foreign material, and deposits of debris can build up inside. Or, if you are operating in very sandy, silty water, abrasion and erosion of the core and other components may be taking place.

    Fuel System...

    Faults within the fuel system generally do not cause engine damage, but it does cause damage to itself, as well as serious performance problems. Nowadays it is rare that diesel boats don't have good Racor or Dahl filters. But it is not rare that many boats have dirty fuel system problems, whether the contaminated fuel results from internal conditions, or taking contaminated fuel on board. Some of the better fuel docks today have open filters where you can actually see whether any contamination is being removed from the fuel. To say the least, this is comforting.

    Unfortunately, water can accumulate in your tank. The most common way this happens -- and it's remarkable that most people never think of it -- is that the fuel filler cap is leaking. The second most common source is through an improperly installed vent line. The third is condensation in the tank. In southeast Florida tank condensation is fairly rare because temperature changes are not conducive. From the central west coast on north it is.

    People often ask whether they should maintain their tanks full at all times. The answer to this is not that straightforward. It depends on how much fuel you use. It is not wise to allow old and aging fuel to accumulate in your tank. If you top off after short, infrequent operation every time, the fuel in your tank is going to get old. This can foul up your injectors. But so will water. Water causes bacterial blooms in the fuel, and it only takes a very small amount of water to do this. You'd be better off with this happening to a nearly empty tank than a nearly full one. For the most part, it's going to depend on how much of a bacteria problem you have, and whether frequent changing of your filters can handle it.

    Long winter lay-ups present an obvious problem. If you have one of those fuel filtering services in your area, that is the way to go since the cost of filters and aggravation can more than make the cost of this service worthwhile. Plus it absolutely does the job.

    Vent Filters...

    Many boat builders are installing vent filters on tank vent lines. These need to be serviced, so don't forget about them or one day an engine may magically crap out for no apparent reason.

    Aspiration System...

    The temperature and cleanliness of the air your engine breathes is very important. That's why most engine manufacturers are now supplying some kind of air filtration system with their engines, after we've complained about engines breathing salty air for years. There's no end to the ways engines can end up breathing not only dirty air, but air that is full of all sorts of crap like sand. And yes, inside your boat. A typical example is on a trawler type boat with wooden soles. The gap in the hatches is directly over the air intake, and dirt from the sole falls right down the gaps and into the engine. One of the most common problems is engines sucking in crap from deteriorating carpeting backings. Yep, engines eating carpeting, fibers and all.

    If you don't have air filters on your engines, get them installed NOW!
    Turbo charged engines usually require that the air from the hot turbo be cooled. This is done with an inter or after cooler, take your choice of names. Not only do these gizmos cool intake air, but they filter it too. Not by design, but by the same means your air conditioner inadvertently filters air. This clogs the cooler up with a corresponding rise in engine temperature. If your cooling system is already weak, this can be fatal. Yep, you guessed it. Here's yet another cooler to add to the cost of the maintenance bill. You small boaters, are you really sure you want diesel? Get out the checkbook.

    Yet another problem is air starvation. Fairly common, this is the result of improper boat design from inadequate ventilation. It, too, causes engine overheating. You can tell when this condition is present when, under way, you go to lift an engine hatch or door and there is a vacuum fighting against it. Another telltale is when you get a dark halo around the perimeter of carpeting and carpeted hatches. This is an absolutely sure sign that the engine room vents are not adequate.

    Cumulative Effects...

    The cumulative effects of improper maintenance cause the demise of most diesel engines and resulting overheats. Then, suddenly one day the engine goes bang for no apparent reason. There's a reason all right, but it's the cumulative effect of poor maintenance. For the most part, diesels are very unforgiving of neglect. Oh, I know you're probably thinking about those boating books you've read that talk about how rugged and dependable diesels are. I've seen them too. But if you look closely, you'll see that they are not talking about HI PERFORMANCE DIESELS. They're talking about those old 4 and 6 banger naturally aspirated engines that develop 110 hp. Ninety-nine percent of diesel engines in power boats today can be classified as high performance. Meaning that they are not slow, rugged and dependable -- rather they are fragile engines that require a great deal of care. It doesn't take much to push them over the edge.

    Continue to Part 3
  3. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Basic Service Recommendation...

    The first recommendation, if you are not doing most maintenance yourself, is that you establish a relationship with a good diesel man, if that is possible. Engage him to perform the following:
    Maintain the engine alarm system. If the alarm system or gauges do not function, this could be one of the costliest mistakes you'll ever make.

    12 Month Operation...

    Conduct a basic engine survey annually. This is essentially an inspection to search for small problems before they become big ones. The cost to do this is not high, and is likely to save you big bucks in the long run.

    1. Inspect sea water pump impellers biannually.
    2. Take engine temperatures with infrared gun annually.
    3. Clean intercooler annually Open up and inspect the sea water pump and check condition annually.
    4. Conduct cooling system inspection and cleaning every two years. Change engine coolant annually.
    5. Conduct a basic engine survey at beginning of season. This includes all gaskets, hoses, belts and wiring. Inspect sea water pump impellers annually.
    6. Conduct cooling system inspection and cleaning every two years.
    7. Take engine temperatures with infrared gun annually Clean intercooler annually.
    8. Change engine oil prior to lay up. Change engine coolant every two years.

    These recommendations are not intended to supercede engine manufacturer recommendations.

    General Dos and Dont's..

    1. Don't start engines without checking fluid levels.
    2. Do not permit engines to sit without running them for more than 7 days. Try to operate engines at least every 5 days. Allow engines to warm up, then run at about 1500 RPM for about 5 minutes, then shut down.
    3. Properly lay up engines that aren't going to be used for periods of greater than 30 days. Long periods of disuse results in serious internal engine rusting of cylinder walls and valves.
    4. Do not start engines with throttles advanced.
    5. Do not race engines until they are up to normal operating temperature. This is very damaging.
    6. Avoid prolonged idling if possible. When trolling or idling for long periods, always run the engine at cruise speed or higher on the way home for at least 30 minutes to dislodge carbon deposits.
    7. Service fuel system immediately if excessive exhaust emissions occur. Do not operate boat at high speed with badly fouled bottom or when vibration occurs.
  4. dogsharks

    dogsharks Guest

    Great info, I'm bookmarking this thread in order to share it with others.

    I might add, AMSOIL seems to have a very high grade synthetic oil specially formulated for marine diesel applications. I collect older Porsches as a hobby and I use their products with good results, and that's where I saw the info about their diesel line. Even if people don't use this product line, the cool thing about AMSOIL, is they list all their specs so anyone can compare what they may be using, to what is available from them.

    http://www.amsoil.com/products/marine/index.aspx

    I am sure there are many equal or better products that can be used in diesel applications too.

    I don't use their product in my cruiser (yet) but I probably will on the next fill. I'm presently using a synthetic from Mobil in my (gas) application.

    regards, Dogsharks
    Nashville, TN
    on the Cumberland River Inland Highway
  5. Codger

    Codger YF Wisdom Dept.

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    The sulphuric acid issue can be negated to some degree by using Low Sulphur diesel. Using a blend of biodiesel also helps lubricity. Check first with the manufacturer of the installation prior to using the bio-diesel since some of the plumbing doesn't take well to it.
    We have some Cat 3406, 3408, 3412 and 3508 that have been on a diet of B20 ( 20% methyl esters, 80% D2) ranging from 6 months to 3 years and they run problem free and issue less smoke than on straight D2. I don't know if this translates to marine versions but it might be worth taking a look at.
    Oil filter media can vary greatly. There are 5 and 10 micron filters available but again, no experience using these in a marine environment.
  6. pascal bertram

    pascal bertram New Member

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    after a long time without using my bertram 42 and the 2 detroit diesel i found out that the diesel is very dirty and make a kind of paste on the filter may be it is bacteria how to get ride of it any product coming in complement of cleaning

    thanks
    kind regards
    pascal
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Carl, This is the first time I have seen this post. It is great but it must have been a long day when you wrote this as in Post Np 3 you have contradicted yourself and repeated a few points in your list.
  8. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    At the time, I was working 18 hour days. Now things are little easier. I only have to work 24 hours a day.
  9. lwrandall

    lwrandall senior member

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    I second K1W1's comments. This is my first time seeing this post as well. Love it. I will print this out for reference.
  10. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    What's the update on API certification for DD 2 stroke oils being phased out.

    Is there an update from DD on this as yet?
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I believe that the answer lies in these three letters... MTU! :D
  12. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Good post. I would like to point out though that there are operators out there who disagree with changing the oil on your schedule, and indeed, at all, ever. I worked for a river tug company on the Mississippi that never changed the oil and we were running 3x20-645-E7 EMDs. The filters were changed every week and an oil sample taken and sent off for analysis and additives to the oil were replenished as recommended by the lab. The key to being able to do this is running the engines at proper (high) temperatures to keep all the nasties like sulfuric acid boiled out of the oil, and as you said, using high quality filters. There is also the factor of the oil getting replaced anyway through replenishment oil for what the engines consumed. I brought one of the boats into the yard for refit with 100,000 hrs on the engines that had been operated that way their entire lives.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I believe it, but a commercially operated engine that is running all of the time doesn't get the same contaminents as a recreational yacht that runs every two weeks and sits around. I still would change oil in a commercial setting like that maybe less often, because there are some contaminents that still wouldn't boil out of the oil, even though the filters should catch all of the floating particles in it. It won't get rid of sodium build up from the engines ingesting air with salt in it everyday and things like that.

    But on the other hand, I'm sure they save a ton of money in oil, that could go towards a rebuild sooner or later
  14. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Any oil designated as CF-2 is fine for the older DD series. You can still get Delo 100 at West marine. You may have to special order depending on location.

    Certain oils that used to be CF-2 are no longer CF-2 (Delo 400) but there are still plenty of options.
  15. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    This post is helpful for me ... I own my first diesel boat now ... took delivery with it in need of an engine overhaul ... that will be complete in another month (12V71TI) and the boat will begin it's journey to my summertime haven in Northport, Maine. Actually, the journey will begin May 1st after a couple months of shake out and attention to other maintenance and refit issues. Safety and reliability are very important to me so I'm pretty keen to the maintenance details. I have learned quite a bit already.
  16. curtarmy

    curtarmy New Member

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    What did you step up into? 28 + 26 = 54, 54 + 26 = Nice!
  17. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    The 1984 54' Bertram is my new boat. It's going to be an exciting summer as I was deep into a refit project on the Bertram 28 when the 54 became available. Now I have two boat projects going on at once and cannot wait to see the outcome of both.
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I might have run that boat a few years back. I ran a 54' with 12v71's with a hardtop. It had a lot of hours, around 4600. It was in Florida, but I think came out of Delaware prior to that. It ran very good considering the hours then and cruised at just under 30 knots.........
  19. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    There are several around and the 12V71TI engines have lasted well in many cases. Mine did lots of tournaments and spent its life in AL and Miss. ... full tower .. soft tops .. different boat, similar story.

    I'm just amazed that the boat remains in such good condition after 25 years. It's solid and the workmanship is very nice. When I look down under the v-berth floor at the condition of the hull, it all looks new. AND I know it's been in some rough conditions.
  20. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    Oil Changes

    Good information. On my motors (Man) it requires the use of Delvac 1 (5w-40) Synthetic which is hard to find besides being very expensive. $40 gallon. The good news if there is one it recommends oil changes every 400 hrs or annually.