Waste Water & Sewage Treatment System, onboard

brian eiland · 05-26-2011, 08:28 AM

I was cruising thru a June issue of Popular Science and ran across an award that had been given to this potential onboard sewage treatment device. I thought it definitely deserved some discussion on these forums.

"What if we could eliminate sewage? The ZLD virtually does just that! It takes the sewage (solids and liquids), grinds them up and homogenizes the solids in the liquid.

The ZLD then takes that liquid (that looks like chocolate milk) and pressurizes it and sprays this liquid into the hot exhaust gas of the engine. The hot engine gas vaporizes the liquid, and kills the bacteria and basically eliminates the sewage with no odor no liquid or no sludge to handle."

I went looking for a website and found this,
Zero Liquid Discharge (ZLD) Sewage Elimination System

K1W1 · 05-26-2011, 08:40 AM

Hi,

This system is also interesting as it claims that it doesn't discharge anything.

http://www.dragonflymarine.com/zero_discharge_system/

Marmot · 05-26-2011, 08:49 AM

Oh yeah ... I'm sure there are thousands of marine engineers looking forward to this bit of waste handling fantasy. I think the idea stinks.

We used to use a "s**t shooter" in some steamship boiler installations but boiler firebox conditions are a lot different than a diesel exhaust.

This guy might know his s**t but he doesn't have a clue how many turds this idea would dump into the machinery.

Marmot · 05-26-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1W1

This system is also interesting as it claims that it doesn't discharge anything.

Actually, that is a great system that will only get better as filter technology improves. This is a glimpse of the future of waste treatment.

I don't think the product water will ever replace the Evian bottle but it can already be used everywhere else.

brian eiland · 05-26-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmot

Oh yeah ... I'm sure there are thousands of marine engineers looking forward to this bit of waste handling fantasy. I think the idea stinks.

We used to use a "s**t shooter" in some steamship boiler installations but boiler firebox conditions are a lot different than a diesel exhaust.

This guy might know his s**t but he doesn't have a clue how many turds this idea would dump into the machinery.

I don't see where he is dumping into the 'machinery', (or boiler as you might have experienced). It appears as it is dumped into the exhaust at very near the exit point?

...and it appears as though it has received a US Coast Guard Certification
http://www.thezld.com/index.php/project-profiles

jhall767 · 05-27-2011, 10:00 AM

Maybe I missed it but what did the USCG certify the ZLD to be? What type MSD? Many areas are No Discharge Zones - can it be used there? How practical is it for anything other than a commercial vessel that is in operation most of the time?

And if burning bio diesel made from restaurant fryers makes your exhaust smell like french fries...

Capt J · 05-27-2011, 10:41 AM

I can only imagine the smell of hot turds coming out of a yachts exhaust. Somehow I cannot see it being too appealing, and then cleaning turd smog off of the transom...........

Old Phart · 05-27-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhall767

And if burning bio diesel made from restaurant fryers makes your exhaust smell like french fries...

Just have a big dog aboard - blame it!

Crazy thought regarding pyroflatulence - has anyone held a long, stick match near the exhaust while the system is doing its thing!

If so, did the results resemble this?

http://www.turbinefun.com/MultPopup....age=Sanger-009

brian eiland · 05-28-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I don't see where he is dumping into the 'machinery', (or boiler as you might have experienced). It appears as it is dumped into the exhaust at very near the exit point?

Well I was wrong here, he is injecting in the manifold area. And if the engine is turbo I'm sure it would have to be after the turbo.

brian eiland · 05-28-2011, 11:26 AM

Here is another informed reply from Trawlers & Trawlering
http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/t...ay/157205.html

Here we go again...this idea re-surfaces about every 10 years. It was
first tried in RVs about 30 years ago...and it actually seemed to work
pretty well....at least till the animal fats in waste began clogging up
catalytic converters and mufflers. There was also one more minor
problem: unbearable odor that gassed everyone in vehicles up to a
quarter mile behind an RV equipped with this system. So...it didn't last
long.

Several other would-be inventors have tried to make it work in RVs with
no better success...but the first--the ONLY--attempt to put on a boat
was about 15 years ago. Some Europeans put one on a muscle boat...it
worked, they put it on the market for a couple thousand bucks. What THEY
overlooked was, very few boats except muscle boats have dry
exhausts...and wet exhausts don't hot enough to incinerate anything.
Plus, there was still that pesky odor problem and those darned animals
fats. It was a short-lived venture.

Now, here we go again... This guy CLAIMS to have solved the odor
problem, but doesn't address the animal fats (it takes some time and/or
some VERY heavy toilet use for those build up enough to start to cause
problems, so he may not even be aware of it yet). So while it may work
on a RV, it still wouldn't work on most boats because most boats have
wet exhausts. However, I see on his website http://www.thezld.com/ that
he's had it "certified" by the CG and the EPA, but he doesn't say WHAT
he's had it certified as (plus, the EPA doesn't certify anything)...I
don't THINK it's as a Type I or II, but I'm gonna call him in the
morning to find out.....Peggie Hall

Marmot · 05-29-2011, 07:32 AM

The certification just states "Marine Sanitation Device" and that it meets the standards for BOD,fecal coliform limits, and suspended solids.

Keep in mind that a USCG approval does not mean something is practical, maintainable, or even rational ... it just means it meets a narrowly described set of functional tests.

http://cgmix.uscg.mil/Equipment/Equi...spx?EQID=16123

Bollinger seems to have been involved in this effort at some point but I can't find anything that still connects them with it. Something just doesn't smell good about this whole thing.

Yachtjocky · 05-29-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Well I was wrong here, he is injecting in the manifold area. And if the engine is turbo I'm sure it would have to be after the turbo.

Before the turbo so that it is shredded before being burnt

Steve in SoCal · 05-29-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachtjocky

Before the turbo so that it is shredded before being burnt

Turbo/macerater pump, That would indeed give new meaning to the phrase, the turbo took a s**T. Personally I think the "electric chair" incinolet is a far more practical method of handling black waste.

Steve

tirekicker11 · 05-29-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

This system is also interesting as it claims that it doesn't discharge anything.

http://www.dragonflymarine.com/zero_discharge_system/

So we're back to square #1 when it comes to vaporizing waste water.

There are several treatment systems like Dragonfly available. (Raritan, Planus, Scienco/Fast, Galleymaid etc.) Systems that break black water down and discharge basic components.
Has anyone here made a study of this. What would be the best system available for recreational boating use?