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Need an opinion, IPS or Zeus?

 
 
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAP123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG
What I was told by Volvo Penta, is if the hull has some kind of pockets, the exhausts can be trapped and go back into the raw water inlet at extended idling, why a separate water inlet would be advised.
What are the first indications of the problem; high temp? And how soon after new are they showing up?
Well, how many minutes does it take to burn an impeller..? I think the engine will shut down as soon as the temp goes up.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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exhaust ingestion

This issue only occurs when sitting still at idle for extended periods, and VP addresses it with an inverted 3" shaped snorkle on the intake to get it below the bubbles.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AMG
Well, how many minutes does it take to burn an impeller..? I think the engine will shut down as soon as the temp goes up.
Temp is what I figured, but was confused by the guy changing trannys.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Volvo Penta has just come out with two new motors, with higher horse power for the larger boats (to suit 110' +). The IPS1050 and the IPS1200. Cheers

http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopenta...Language=en-gb

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Old 03-09-2010, 02:17 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 84far
Volvo Penta has just come out with two new motors, with higher horse power for the larger boats (to suit 110' +). The IPS1050 and the IPS1200. Cheers

http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopenta...Language=en-gb

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Hi,

Lets hope for the end users sake that this is not another "rebadged" engine that has been so well known for un reliability and non dealer support for a while now. By this I mean the re branded Mitsubishi engine sold as a Volvo with an output equivalent to around 800 ekW when used as a Genset Prime Mover.
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Old 03-09-2010, 04:57 AM   #21 (permalink)
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K1W1, thanks for the heads up, will try and find out. There saying it's the 3rd Generation 13ltr (12.8ltr) series. Cheers

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Old 03-13-2010, 03:36 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Biggest negative I've found to date against the Zeus is the fact that CMD only offers one size drive all the way from the smallest HP B series to the largest M11. This is no problem when you're running an M11 with the zeus but you lose efficiency when your trying to power that same drive with a smaller motor. Volvo has this covered with several different drive sizes, with the IPS the smallest HP package comes with a smaller drive unit therefore eliminating the need to drive an unnecessarily large drive with a smaller hp motor, not to mention that the smallest Volvo IPS drive is substantially smaller than the Zeus drive therefore taking up much less space under the cockpit.

I don't understand why this is so since it appears as if ZF (company that makes the drive for CMD) has several different size drive systems available. Why is CMD only using one in their Zeus package?
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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One difference that matters to me is the fact that the zeus mounts vertically (90' to the waterline). The IPS sticks out of the bottom at whatever the deadrise angle is.
I drove one IPS boat that banked so hard in a turn that I thought it was going to throw us all out. Speed sensitive steering made that even worse if you throttled back in the middle of a turn. The angle of the IPS drive makes it act more like an aileron than a rudder. When you turn the wheel to starboard, the starboard drive pushes water up and the port pushes water down. There is as much rolling force as turning force.
When was the last time you saw rudders on an inboard boat that didn't stick straight down perpendicular to the waterline across the transom? In a typical inboard, the struts may be angled but the rudders are usually straight (vertical)
(I could draw this better than I am explaining it)
I am guessing Volvo did this to make adapting existing hulls to IPS easier but I don't like how it feels and it does not make sense to me.
As another poster noted the Zeus requires cutouts/tunnels in the hull which would increase the cost to make the change and also change other aspects of the hull performance due to reduced buoyancy in the stern. However, in my opinion this is the correct way to do it.
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I am guessing Volvo did this to make adapting existing hulls to IPS easier but I don't like how it feels and it does not make sense to me.
As another poster noted the Zeus requires cutouts/tunnels in the hull which would increase the cost to make the change and also change other aspects of the hull performance due to reduced buoyancy in the stern. However, in my opinion this is the correct way to do it.
If you are developing a hull just for this kind of drives, you can of course find solutions to the problems you describe. But you have to build it in full scale to test it out, which can be expensive if you are totally wrong...
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Mitsubishi relationship is long gone

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Originally Posted by K1W1
Hi,

Lets hope for the end users sake that this is not another "rebadged" engine that has been so well known for un reliability and non dealer support for a while now. By this I mean the re branded Mitsubishi engine sold as a Volvo with an output equivalent to around 800 ekW when used as a Genset Prime Mover.
K1W1, You do know your history. But that relationship is long gone. The IPS 2 is powered by the D11. This is the D9 with additional stroke and built in France actually. While the previous D4 and D6 are Volvo Penta only, larger stuff comes from Volvo Powertrain. Like in Volvo truck, Mack truck, Renault truck, Volvo bus and Volvo construction equipment besides Penta. The IPS 3 announced in London is a D13. This one is a 13 liter displacement, built in Sweden, and it has been in trucks for a while. The pleasure vessel rating is 900HP inboard so far. Also an in-line 6 but with twin aftercooled turbos, no supercharger.
As you well know, the emissions regulations keep things advancing faster perhaps than boaters can really afford.

Back to IPS or Zeus. First the boat better be designed from the start for this, not just a force fit to breathe new life into an old dog that is a poor fit. As was said, LCG must be right. Volvo has two positive things here in my eyes, experience with a wider variety of applications (they even tried catamarans I think in New Zealand), plus they have an entire system design for engine, drive and transmission. This means there are few others to point the blame at (finger pointing as we know it).
There does not seem to be enough information about Zeus installations to gather good information. Lazzara did try it in the 76, but it was not in the shows like the 75 (quad IPS 1)and the 92 (quad IPS2). What about Sea Ray? Why are there not more models and more domination in the market? I read about their quad in a fishing style boat on the web, but I am told it was a striped hull with no interior.
I have questions like all of you do. I am sold on these pleasure pods as my knees still hurt from 20 years ago when I reinstalled all the running gear on a 60 Hatteras. But only when done right.
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:14 PM   #26 (permalink)
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60 Hat?

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Originally Posted by SHAZAM!
The volvo people seem much more aggressive, I guess they have to be as Cummins has built in sales with brunswick products. Based on the reaction from the "man on the dock" during the last few boat shows, you'd think that shafts and rudders are a thing of the past. I'm not sold yet as the one vessel that I did sea trial (quad zeus 60 Hat) was (at least imo) a miserable failure of a boat.
Shazam, was this a complete vessel or was the interior not included? I heard just a rumor about a boat they may have bought for test that was not the same as a finished product should be. Curious as well about why it was such a failure. Certainly a dramatic change from tradition. Can the blade area of the props possibly carry such a load?
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Norudder, this was an unfinished boat with no interior. I was told that it was a 60 hatteras hull that had QC issues that was given to Cummins for free as a test bed. After inquiring about this setup, my cummins rep told me that the boat was nothing more than a proof of concept for larger builders to show that the zeus could be used in a quad application.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:18 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG
What I was told by Volvo Penta, is if the hull has some kind of pockets, the exhausts can be trapped and go back into the raw water inlet at extended idling, why a separate water inlet would be advised.
You are correct in the above, if hull deadrise is very flat then exhaust gasses can sit under the hull and be sucked back up the intakes. Volvo have put out a solution to this with a water inlet that bolts directly to the current inlet but has a nozzle that protrudes down a couple of inches so any air is trapped above the water inlet and not taken in!
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:30 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Efficiency

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Originally Posted by SHAZAM!
Pros, cons of each system? Getting ready to choose one, any thoughts? Lazarra seems to have switched from IPS to Zeus on their newest boats, anyone know why? Comments appreciated.

To me you simply look at prop size! IPS can use a 435 hp engine to swing its props and via the Zeus system to swing same size prop CMD need to use almost 600hp! And a 4" exhaust above the waterline, I don't need that kind of droaning noise from any boat!
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:40 AM   #30 (permalink)
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If you look at the drive, the raw water pick-up could be blanked off and sighted elsewhere while the exhaust exits through the drive.

http://www.marinepartserurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7744980-44-21417.aspx
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