Genset problem

Pascal · 10-12-2009, 07:26 PM

it depends... I've heard somethign similar about either some Kohlers or some Onans requiring some voltage to keep running... personally i'm not a fan of either... i'll take a Westerbeke, Northern light or Norpro instead. much more simple circuitry.

nycap, good point, i missed where he was from. i'm heading north tomorrow and i'm having a hard time coping with the 38 deg. forecast for Nantucket!

Marmot · 10-12-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennismc

Gen sets have to generate a minimum of 70 Volts AC current before they will start, ... so the book says.

Would like a link to that book. I too have been working on marine generators for longer than I care to admit and have never seen that one.

On little DGs the fuel solenoid is DC, the starter is DC, the safety shutdowns are DC.If the engine cranks and the fuel solenoid is open with fuel available, the engine should start even if the generator end is in pieces on the workbench or burned out.

What generator does this AC voltage permissive apply to? Is that 70 volts maybe a starter cutout signal? Some controllers use frequency to establish sequence controls ... I am not saying you are wrong, just very curious as this is one of the millions of things I have never heard of before.

K1W1 · 10-12-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal

i'm heading north tomorrow and i'm having a hard time coping with the 38 deg. forecast for Nantucket!

Hi,

That is cold for this time of year, it is colder than the upcoming daytime forecast for 15 Deg North and 80 East of there.

Henning · 10-12-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

His statement: "if this is something that I should do every year to keep her running smoothly" leads me to question the fuel filter, but once into the fuel system it could go further than the filter . That's why I figure he's better off getting a mechanic in so he can observe and learn. CaptPKilbride, Heats the air. Makes sense. Thanks.

Could very well be a fuel filter issue. Many modern gensets also have an automatic heater (be it manifold or cylinder type glow plug) circuit, so I'd also be checking the connection, sticking a multi meter on the plug lead and then run a resistance check on the plug to see if I had either an open or fully closed circuit. If it does not use a heater, then it's a high compression engine, and if it'd older, it may be losing enough that it needs some cranking to warm things up a bit. There's enough possibilities that without him being a "diesel engine guy", your suggestion to bring in a pro is pretty much going to be his best solution.

K1W1 · 10-12-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmot

........ the engine should start even if the generator end is in pieces on the workbench or burned out.

Hi,

Or the Exciter has a dud connection to the AVR or the coupling has failed in service, or the diodes have been shorted by a cable coming off and arcing on the case, or the "new generation" Electronic CAT AVR has shaken itself to bits but as its all sealed in a not easy to open box it takes a while to figure out it's a goner.

They had not been using these for long before a service bulletin came out saying -Don't mount them where the Tray Type AVR used to be.

In subsequent installs I always tried to salvage the Voltage,Gain and Droop Pots from the Tray Type as they did not fall apart like the cheap and nasty ones in the Electronic version and the new AVR had external terminals for connection of these pots for remote - normally switchboard mounted adjustments.

dennismc · 10-12-2009, 10:41 PM

Well......read up on the manuals....these are "electric plants" just a little different than mains..but....what do I know in comparison to the great"KIWI"
No insult intended...just a "twist" pf humour ....

K1W1 · 10-12-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennismc

Well......read up on the manuals....these are "electric plants" just a little different than mains..but....what do I know in comparison to the great"KIWI"
No insult intended...just a "twist" pf humour ....

Hi,

No insult taken, except for the fact you mis spelled my name. :-)

If you would be so kind as to post the details of the particular genset you say has this unusual operational requirement I would be happy to read the manual, if I can find it online.

Until then it's a bit difficult to know which manuals to start reading up on.

Capt J · 10-13-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henning

Could very well be a fuel filter issue. Many modern gensets also have an automatic heater (be it manifold or cylinder type glow plug) circuit, so I'd also be checking the connection, sticking a multi meter on the plug lead and then run a resistance check on the plug to see if I had either an open or fully closed circuit. If it does not use a heater, then it's a high compression engine, and if it'd older, it may be losing enough that it needs some cranking to warm things up a bit. There's enough possibilities that without him being a "diesel engine guy", your suggestion to bring in a pro is pretty much going to be his best solution.

I would agree, the first thing I would check would be fuel filter, next would be the stop solenoid.......

However, if you are not mechanically inclined to follow the owners manual or have any doubt. I would highly suggest calling a mechanic, as it would be money well spent.

Marmot · 10-13-2009, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennismc

Well......read up on the manuals....these are "electric plants" just a little different than mains..but....what do I know in comparison to the great"KIWI"

Wait a minute, you were the one who said "... so the book says" so it is not unreasonable for someone to ask what book for what genset. Don't come back with a snide retort like that "what do I know in comparison" comment.

If you claim a source in a technical discussion you had better be prepared to provide it. And insulting someone (it was an insulting response - K1W1 is far too generous) instead of providing a source to backup your direct claim of a "book" reference just doesn't cut it. On top of that, your "well, read up on the manuals" response sure looks like a smokescreen to me. Do you have that "book" or not? Do you know which generator or not? If not then why on earth would you go online and post a response that did nothing other than provide misleading or outright false information? Just to get your name in print?

NYCAP123 · 10-13-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pascal

i'm heading north tomorrow and i'm having a hard time coping with the 38 deg. forecast for Nantucket!

Don't want to question your navigating skills, especially since I know you've made the trip a few time, but are you sure about that direction?

I'd probably pass you along the way (leaving Monday), but I'm heading south.

Safe passage.

Marmot · 10-13-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

"Don't want to question your navigating skills ..."

Yeah, but aren't you guys in the part of the country where they say "down east?"

Do people in Maine go "up west" or "out south" when they travel?

NYCAP123 · 10-13-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmot

Yeah, but aren't you guys in the part of the country where they say "down east?"

Do people in Maine go "up west" or "out south" when they travel?

Not from that far north! Those people swim in 50* water and call it warm.

'Down east' is the coast of Maine. The don't go 'up west' from there much without a chainsaw or a riffle. Around here we go 'up west' or more precisely "upisland" when going to the city (basically anyplace west of me 'til you hit NJ. I'm an east-ender). We go 'out west' when heading for the left coast, but we still go 'down south' when heading for Florida unless we want to go the long way.

I rememmber the days when you needed a translator and dietician when you got south of Norfolk. Times are a'changin'.

Marmot · 10-13-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

"I rememmber the days when you needed a translator and dietician ..."(

When the 3 basic food groups are salt, grease, and beer you don't need no high falootin' dietician!

CaptPKilbride · 10-13-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmot

When the 3 basic food groups are salt, grease, and beer you don't need no high falootin' dietician!

Now *THAT* was funny!

Pascal · 10-13-2009, 10:55 AM

NYCAP, go ahead and question my navigation skills, i question myself all the time! I find it's the best way to be safe... once you take something for granted, you get in trouble...

i'm flying up to ACK (I'm in transit in BOS right now)... that's what i meant by heading north. and the 38deg forecast is obviously a low. still traumatic since i just spent the week end partying on biscayne bay (columbus day regatta) in 90+ weather.

where are you heading? i'm taking it easy as usual, the boat can't be south of cumberland GA before Nov 1st anyway (insurance).