[JimH]

Hi,

My wife and I are planning on selling out and moving aboard in about a year. We want a quality LRC that will be comfortable to live on. We like the Nordhavn line but can not afford the larger/newer models. Our exact boat buying budget will depend on the final talley when we finish selling out. We are confident we will have at least enough to buy an N46 or possibly a new N40/II. If all goes well we could possibly buy an N43.

We are looking for opinions about the various trade offs. New VS Used? Liveaboard space? etc.

All advice will be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Jim

[RoyN]

I don't know how tight your budget is, but assuming you wont have any additional income once you go aboard, I'd caution you to get a significant fund to cope with maintenance, fuel, unexpected circumstances, etc...

Depending on how long you plan on being away this could be 10% of the boat value, or 50% of the boat value, there is no way to get a firm figure...

[JimH]

Thanks for the feedback. I also don't, yet, know how tight my budget will be. I am confident we will have at least enough to buy an N46 with 10-50% set aside for maintenance, etc.. However, this hits on one of the issues I am wondering about. An N46 would be something like 15 years old while an N40/II or N43 would be brand new (or, if found used, almost new). What are the trade-offs in terms of maintenance and major repairs/replacement costs? When factoring in these other costs, over the long run, would a new N40/II or N43 be less expensive?

Thanks for your advice.

Jim

[RoyN]

Hi Jim,

You seem to have a good, thought out attitude for this...which is very good, many ppl will just want "the biggest he can get", which is definitely the wrong approach in this case.

Let's look at some facts/figures:
A Nordhavn 46 around 1990-1995 is just under 500k, while a N43 2004 (as seen on a listing website) is around 700k?

Are these the figures you are seeing in your firm buying contacts?

That in itself is a BIG difference... HOWEVER, a 15yo boat will be most probably a big maintenance ticket... Engines, pumps, generators, exhausts, everything tends to deteriorate, and when you talk 15yrs down the line, even a top-notch maintained vessel will have many problems...

A brand new boat will have its kinks to be worked out (so not exactly "pick-up and cross the ocean"), but it will have warranty on all major components. This warranty is not only from Nordhavn, but think about the generators, engines, aircon, and all other systems.

Hourly techs just to figure out what is wrong with this stuff can cost hundreds of dollars just for a diagnosis in some cases.

10-15% (lets assume 50,000) is probably enough to get a 15yro boat in "useable" condition, but probably wont be enough to swap out any major components that need rebuilding/replacing.

A new aircon setup will eat a considerable part of that sum, as will a generator swap/revamp, as well as an engine rebuild if required.

Maintenance on a new boat will always be less than on a used boat in the long run, especially since your "used" boat includes probably no warranty, and the new one will include full warranties (which can range from 1 to 5yrs or more depending on the equipment/extended warranties).

What about fuel? Both of the boats mentioned carry around 1000gals of fuel, which can cost you about $2000 or so to fuelup. Although they will give you a lot of range (the N46 has even smaller engines, so running hours on one tank will be more I suppose), you will still be fueling up rather often I suppose, so that needs to be factored in.

Why don't you investigate a bit more about the two boats you are considering (is the used one well maintained? have the engines/generators been overhauled? how many hours do they have? When is their next overhaul due?, etc)...

These nordhavns have the john deere engines, which supposedly run for over 50,000 or so without an overhaul, but there is probably a good amount of maintenance involved.

Cost for oil and spares should also be accounted...I really don't have enough experience to give you concrete figures, but maybe something 2 yrs old or so, or maybe a bit older would be better? (Things tend to have been fixed under warranty, as opposed to things being overlooked because they were quite expensive and were still "running")

Others will probably have more details, but do look around, maybe ask around to some current captains of similar boats? Captains or Captain-Owners will probably be able to give you concrete numbers, and maybe they will disprove everything I say

[TimL]

Jim,
Roy brought up some good points. I have looked at the models you are considering. The 40 is small. If you are used to a decent sized house, you will feel very cramped in the 40. The 43 is better, the extra room is very noticable. I myself, would try and find a good 46. The 46 seemed more open and appeared to have more light coming in which helped it feel open. The looks are completely different between the 46 and 40/43. Do you like one look over the other?? The 46 is a little older technology - you'll find the engine room smaller. The engines, as long as they are maintained, will last a long time. As Roy pointed out, there is a large price difference.

Are you planning to travel in open ocean or just coastal crusing?? These boats cost a lot because the systems are designed for open ocean. If you are not considering this kind of travel there are other options. I would love to have a trawler (nordhavn, Kadey Krogen, Neville) but the price is out of our range. We cruise in the puget sound (washington) which can get rough but is not open ocean. We choose to go with a nordic tug as the price was acceptable, good quality, plenty of room for what our use is, quality systems, great support and good fuel economy. Maybe this is an option for you.

I would suggest going to the next boat show in your area and really crawl around the models you are interested in (both you and your spouse). I have things that I need on a boat and my wife has her needs. One model will call to the two of you and go from there. Good Luck
Tim

[JimH]

Thanks for your response Tim (you to Roy!)

My preliminary research agrees with Roy's $ estimates for N46 and N43. Also, although I haven't yet gotten to walk around on a N40 yet, looking at pictures and drawings I've been assuming it is too small. It's really nice to get confirmation from someone that my thinking is on target.

Roy wondered about how long we plan to cruise and you wondered about the type of cruising we plan. I wish I knew for sure, but everything depends on how happy we are with our new lifestyle. We plan to live aboard full time. We will start out cruising the USA east coast and as our experience grows we will develop more ambitious cruising plans. We, or at least I, hope to eventually work our way up to ocean crossings and perhaps a circumnavigation. However, we will not consider this unless, until, we are confident about our skills and our boat. And, most importantly, we will never get to that point if my wife is not comfortable and happy on board (and me too)!

So, one thought might be why not get a coastal cruiser first and wait to see if we are happy and want to cross oceans before buying an LRC? I am worried that I will loose money when I sell the coastal cruiser and will not have enough to buy the LRC (which may also cost more due to inflation). So I’m thinking I should “buy the second boat first.” My other big worry is that the boat be nice enough so that my wife and I are retiring in luxury not camping. These are the thoughts that lead me to the N46. But, given my hopes for long term cruising, I’m very tempted by the newness of the N43.

I would love to hear your thoughts about this.

Thanks,

Jim